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I recently saved away a list of states that do not tax Social Security benefits. Idaho and Oregon are on that list, although I haven't made any attempt to verify that information.
For Idaho, that looks to be the case. I just went through the forms and instructions, and it looks like you can treat your SS benefits as a deduction. And there is this: https://smartasset.com/retirement/id...tirement-taxes
In MOST CASES, taxes in Washington are voluntary in the sense, they are not on INCOME or BASIC necessities like FOOD.
It seems to be waaaaay too much of a stretch to say such a thing; it is a nice idea, but not reality for most residents. Are property taxes and fuel taxes voluntary in WA? No. With real estate values being so high out in the PNW (compared to the midwest and SE, for example), and property taxes consequently being rather high overall in that region, trying to make a claim of low taxes without bringing all factors into the picture will be quite misleading, IMHO.
Additionally, WA state is one of those states that now applies their sales tax to most services for consumers; the labor for auto repairs, repairs to your home, installing new flooring, new roof, etc., all now carry the relatively high state sales tax. See here: https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default....ite=458-20-173
Since in Idaho labor services to consumers are NOT subject to sales taxation, the WA services taxes more than counteracts the ID sales tax on food. Your overall average sales tax burden from sales taxes is almost 2x as high in WA vs ID. See here: https://wallethub.com/edu/states-wit...-burden/20494/
Plus for all you WA state tax fans, don't think that their tax revenue strategy shifts the burden to businesses. If small local businesses carry a high tax burden, where do you think they get the $$ to cover these taxes? From the people who buy their goods and services! LOL Trust me; I have run a small business for 16 years.... Taxes just go into the big accounting hopper called 'costs of doing business', and because it all has to work out long term, higher taxes will raise my company's prices; don't fool yourself that it is otherwise. The only way that WA state residents can make out better is if a lot of their business sales go out-of-state, and people/entities other than Washingtonians indirectly pay the higher WA tax bill.
Which brings up an interesting point: Part of why states like CA can keep stringing things with high taxation along when they have a large base of agricultural or industrial production, plus port services, that add a lot of income coming into the state from outside; other regions in essence pay much of the high tax bills. For this type of discussion, this factor makes the use of average state spending per resident a less-than-accurate way to judge the actual resident's tax burdens, because that average does not separate out in-state and out-of-state revenue sources.
Having said all that, it really goes back to your individual income and spending circumstances and the exact state's tax structure. It's hard to make generalizations!
FWIW..... and you can ignore this as it is going off into left field.... Washington state is of those states that has shifted heavily from income taxes to sales taxes; the last recession in particular showed that such a state tax structure was a lot less subject to tax revenue reductions in recessions. States like NC and KY are now (gradually) shifting their tax structures in the same direction, and many states with lower average incomes have raised sales tax revenues to make up for those type of reasons. Those changes do not by themselves make taxes overall higher or lower, but I have yet to see a state engage in a major tax strategy shift that actually LOWERS the overall tax revenue that the state gets!
Last edited by volosong; 06-29-2019 at 11:47 PM..
Reason: fixed open quote hypertag
Per capita tax collections in WA are $3,057, compared to $2,501 in Idaho (FY16 numbers). So yes, the feds pay a greater share of Washington's spending, but WA still collects 22% more in taxes per capita on average.
I think you also need to ask questions such as which is more likely in the future, that ID eliminates sales tax on groceries, or that WA implements higher/ new taxes to fund their state programs? When thinking smit a retirement destination you should be thinking about how things might change over 25-30 years, not just current state. On that point I think the trends strongly favor Idaho.
It seems to be waaaaay too much of a stretch to say such a thing; it is a nice idea, but not reality for most residents. Are property taxes and fuel taxes voluntary in WA? No. With real estate values being so high out in the PNW (compared to the midwest and SE, for example), and property taxes consequently being rather high overall in that region, trying to make a claim of low taxes without bringing all factors into the picture will be quite misleading, IMHO.
Additionally, WA state is one of those states that now applies their sales tax to most services for consumers; the labor for auto repairs, repairs to your home, installing new flooring, new roof, etc., all now carry the relatively high state sales tax. See here: https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default....ite=458-20-173
Having said all that, it really goes back to your individual income and spending circumstances and the exact state's tax structure. It's hard to make generalizations!
FWIW..... and you can ignore this as it is going off into left field.... Washington state is of those states that has shifted heavily from income taxes to sales taxes; the last recession in particular showed that such a state tax structure was a lot less subject to tax revenue reductions in recessions. ...................... but I have yet to see a state engage in a major tax strategy shift that actually LOWERS the overall tax revenue that the state gets!
Washington has NEVER had an income tax. The shift in Washington has been from corporate taxes to taxes on small business and consumers. Yes, Washington wants to raise taxes...that is why there have been TWO initiatives for carbon taxes and cap and trade. Will it happen who knows....we are talking here and now.
FOOD....check your expenditures if your a low consumptive individual. Taxes on FOOD are critical. That is where people spend their money...outside of housing. Not taxing food is a HUGE advantage to Washington. No sales tax on housing unless your renting my vacation home.
Ok...in my case I probably spend as much on wine as food. But I suspect most folks are NOT drinking wine. AND in my case.....it is a "voluntary" expenditure of funds.
Yep, the Washington state B&O tax is on small business. Generally, three to four percent. It is less significant than you think to prices in Washington state for a whole host of reasons. Is it fair to tax small business and not the corporations?? Well, write your legislators.
Property tax......the ONE thing you cannot control in Washington state.
Tax rate for Chelan County......point...85%.
Tax rate for Kootenai County....Point...99%.
Lived in both.
I like Idaho. I REALLY, REALLY like Montana.
I even like their state governments, unlike Washington. Having been in Montana when it all hit the fan......I was really impressed with the government employees AND elected officials. When it hits the fan in Washington state....I am really impressed with the government employees.....NOT so much with the elected officials. REALLY.....you guys keep re-electing these BOZO's year after year after year and expect things to get better??
Both states have much higher taxes than Washington state. At this point in my life it doesn't make sense for me to move back to Idaho or Montana.
There is more to life than low taxes. However, if that is IMPORTANT to you...trust me. You don't want to move to Montana or any parts of the country where you are EXPECTED to be a member of the community.
It seems to be waaaaay too much of a stretch to say such a thing; it is a nice idea, but not reality for most residents. Are property taxes and fuel taxes voluntary in WA? No. With real estate values being so high out in the PNW (compared to the midwest and SE, for example), and property taxes consequently being rather high overall in that region, trying to make a claim of low taxes without bringing all factors into the picture will be quite misleading, IMHO.
Additionally, WA state is one of those states that now applies their sales tax to most services for consumers; the labor for auto repairs, repairs to your home, installing new flooring, new roof, etc., all now carry the relatively high state sales tax. See here: https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default....ite=458-20-173
Since in Idaho labor services to consumers are NOT subject to sales taxation, the WA services taxes more than counteracts the ID sales tax on food. Your overall average sales tax burden from sales taxes is almost 2x as high in WA vs ID. See here: https://wallethub.com/edu/states-wit...-burden/20494/
Plus for all you WA state tax fans, don't think that their tax revenue strategy shifts the burden to businesses. If small local businesses carry a high tax burden, where do you think they get the $$ to cover these taxes? From the people who buy their goods and services! LOL Trust me; I have run a small business for 16 years.... Taxes just go into the big accounting hopper called 'costs of doing business', and because it all has to work out long term, higher taxes will raise my company's prices; don't fool yourself that it is otherwise. The only way that WA state residents can make out better is if a lot of their business sales go out-of-state, and people/entities other than Washingtonians indirectly pay the higher WA tax bill.
Which brings up an interesting point: Part of why states like CA can keep stringing things with high taxation along when they have a large base of agricultural or industrial production, plus port services, that add a lot of income coming into the state from outside; other regions in essence pay much of the high tax bills. For this type of discussion, this factor makes the use of average state spending per resident a less-than-accurate way to judge the actual resident's tax burdens, because that average does not separate out in-state and out-of-state revenue sources.
Having said all that, it really goes back to your individual income and spending circumstances and the exact state's tax structure. It's hard to make generalizations!
FWIW..... and you can ignore this as it is going off into left field.... Washington state is of those states that has shifted heavily from income taxes to sales taxes; the last recession in particular showed that such a state tax structure was a lot less subject to tax revenue reductions in recessions. States like NC and KY are now (gradually) shifting their tax structures in the same direction, and many states with lower average incomes have raised sales tax revenues to make up for those type of reasons. Those changes do not by themselves make taxes overall higher or lower, but I have yet to see a state engage in a major tax strategy shift that actually LOWERS the overall tax revenue that the state gets!
Per capita tax collections in WA are $3,057, compared to $2,501 in Idaho (FY16 numbers). So yes, the feds pay a greater share of Washington's spending, but WA still collects 22% more in taxes per capita on average.
I think you also need to ask questions such as which is more likely in the future, that ID eliminates sales tax on groceries, or that WA implements higher/ new taxes to fund their state programs? When thinking smit a retirement destination you should be thinking about how things might change over 25-30 years, not just current state. On that point I think the trends strongly favor Idaho.
Washington has NEVER had an income tax. The shift in Washington has been from corporate taxes to taxes on small business and consumers. Yes, Washington wants to raise taxes...that is why there have been TWO initiatives for carbon taxes and cap and trade. Will it happen who knows....we are talking here and now.
FOOD....check your expenditures if your a low consumptive individual. Taxes on FOOD are critical. That is where people spend their money...outside of housing. Not taxing food is a HUGE advantage to Washington. No sales tax on housing unless your renting my vacation home.
Ok...in my case I probably spend as much on wine as food. But I suspect most folks are NOT drinking wine. AND in my case.....it is a "voluntary" expenditure of funds.
Yep, the Washington state B&O tax is on small business. Generally, three to four percent. It is less significant than you think to prices in Washington state for a whole host of reasons. Is it fair to tax small business and not the corporations?? Well, write your legislators.
Property tax......the ONE thing you cannot control in Washington state.
Tax rate for Chelan County......point...85%.
Tax rate for Kootenai County....Point...99%.
Lived in both.
I like Idaho. I REALLY, REALLY like Montana.
I even like their state governments, unlike Washington. Having been in Montana when it all hit the fan......I was really impressed with the government employees AND elected officials. When it hits the fan in Washington state....I am really impressed with the government employees.....NOT so much with the elected officials. REALLY.....you guys keep re-electing these BOZO's year after year after year and expect things to get better??
Both states have much higher taxes than Washington state. At this point in my life it doesn't make sense for me to move back to Idaho or Montana.
There is more to life than low taxes. However, if that is IMPORTANT to you...trust me. You don't want to move to Montana or any parts of the country where you are EXPECTED to be a member of the community.
Wait wait wait. All good until the last paragraph. Explain that last one to me please.
...... which is more likely in the future, that ID eliminates sales tax on groceries, .......
I would never hope that a politician would voluntarily give up any revenue stream.
Politicians in Idaho might make a campaign promise to stop the grocery tax, but it won't happen. Government never gives back a tax once they have it in place.
Washington has NEVER had an income tax. The shift in Washington has been from corporate taxes to taxes on small business and consumers. Yes, Washington wants to raise taxes...that is why there have been TWO initiatives for carbon taxes and cap and trade. Will it happen who knows....we are talking here and now.
Thank you for that history on WA taxes. It helps a lot!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 509
Both states have much higher taxes than Washington state. At this point in my life it doesn't make sense for me to move back to Idaho or Montana.
With all the info to the contrary, based on state to state tax burden ratings and per capita tax collections, this claim is just not holding water for me. Can you elaborate more? Are you just referring to certain tax rates? Is there something in your circumstances that makes your total taxes less in WA? Are you just looking at your direct tax bills and no factoring the higher cost to you due to higher business taxes and wider sales tax applications to services? I'm seriously interested, but a broad claim that conflicts with all the other info out there does not do it for me. Tax per capita is a real measure, and they only possibly way the average Washingtonian does not pay it is if a LOT of product sales go to out of state buyers which WA sate can then collect upon. (And such out of state collections on sales is another matter...) OR if a lot of the property in WA is owned by out-of-staters who send the property taxes in from outside.
And BTW, as for the property tax rates of .85 or .95, those rates are quite meaningless unless you have the assessment basis on which the rate is applied. For example, WY property tax rates look SUPER high by comparison, but the first thing they do is take the assessed value and divide it by 10 to get to the taxable property value! So the net effect on taxes is not high at all, compared to other states in the region.
509 is suggesting that if you have a low consumption lifestyle (i.e. don't buy a lot of stuff) the tax burden in WA becomes lower than in ID. I agree that such a lifestyle can put you below the average tax collections per capita in WA. But, given the 22% higher tax collections in WA I think you would need to be well outside the norm to make the tax burden in WA lower than ID.
Further, if you brought that same lifestyle to ID you'd enjoy some tax savings here as well, albeit less than in WA since ID since things like groceries are taxed here (for the time being).
Finally, you can't really tell how much you are paying in business taxes since that's buried in the prices you pay for everything. 100% of business taxes are paid by the customers of those businesses.
Dave
Last edited by Cnynrat; 06-30-2019 at 01:32 PM..
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