Am I Wrong For My Feelings on Illegal Immigration? Please Advise... (certificate, illegal aliens)
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"We" i.e. the American public were never asked. When we've been asked if we want people who violate our immigration laws here we've always said a resounding no.
There are no jobs that Americans aren't willing to do. What we want is a fair wage and decent working conditions in return. People who take such jobs do not help most Americans. All they do is provide an incentive for employers to push back the labor gains of the last hundred years. They should not be welcomed to our country if that is their intent.
The money sent home to Mexico props up oligarchs and is untaxed. That does not benefit most Americans.
Yes, my relatives were immigrants. LEGAL immigrants who followed the law at the time. After the door was slammed shut in order to assimilate the newcomers they did not try and sneak in here illegally.
These people can better themselves in their own countries. If they made more of an effort to do some their countries might not be such bad places to begin with. Americans have no obligation to every single person who wants to move here simply to make more money.
This bothers many of us because we wind up paying the price for low skilled illegal migrants. We pay the price in overcrowded schools, greatly increased medical bills for local hospitals, food stamps for illegals and their children, untaxed wages and identity politics that hurts people who don't share the nationality of most illegal migrants.
Most of all we pay the price for their needs in an increased sense that our laws no longer matter. Illegal migrants don't simply violate one law. They violate multiple laws. That leads to problems with urban planning, decreased respect for ALL laws and a sense that our democracy is to be ignored when convenient.
If some of us aren't willing to pay it that makes us rational and intelligent beings rather than mere racists as has been repeatedly implied in this thread.
The bolded part is the key (hilarious) part. I don't know any Americans who would like to be migrant farm workers. Not many people dream of doing stoop labor.
Someone else on this thread said, "thirty year's ago, Americans did these jobs." Uh, that would be a big "no."
There are many jobs Americans will not do migrant farm work is key.
If you are really against "illegal immigrants" then you should not eat any fresh produce, nor should you ever hire anyone without a green card to do gardening, etc.
These people are hardworking and trying to better themselves. Maybe the American government should do more to help Mexico get straightened out . . .oh, but that would mean Americans not being the number one customer for illegal drugs and that's another thing that feeds both countries that no one acknowledges.
The bolded part is the key (hilarious) part. I don't know any Americans who would like to be migrant farm workers. Not many people dream of doing stoop labor.
Someone else on this thread said, "thirty year's ago, Americans did these jobs." Uh, that would be a big "no."
There are many jobs Americans will not do migrant farm work is key.
If you are really against "illegal immigrants" then you should not eat any fresh produce, nor should you ever hire anyone without a green card to do gardening, etc.
These people are hardworking and trying to better themselves. Maybe the American government should do more to help Mexico get straightened out . . .oh, but that would mean Americans not being the number one customer for illegal drugs and that's another thing that feeds both countries that no one acknowledges.
Most illegal migrants aren't farm workers either. The handful that are deemed necessary can be given temporary work permits that let them do the only work they are qualified to do when deemed necessary by a handful of employers.
The rest work primarily in hotels, restaurants, construction and other low wage, low skilled occupations that Americans could easily fill in their place. In doing so they help lower wages and decrease workplace protections. Please do a bit more research before writing about this subject.
These people can go be hardworking in their own countries where they won't have to learn a foreign language, ask locals to subsidize their medical and educational costs and make efforts at urban planning difficult. Mexico has ELEVEN billionaires. Maybe THEY should help out their fellow Mexicans instead of asking the American taxpayer to do so?
The bolded part is the key (hilarious) part. I don't know any Americans who would like to be migrant farm workers. Not many people dream of doing stoop labor.
Someone else on this thread said, "thirty year's ago, Americans did these jobs." Uh, that would be a big "no."
There are many jobs Americans will not do migrant farm work is key.
If you are really against "illegal immigrants" then you should not eat any fresh produce, nor should you ever hire anyone without a green card to do gardening, etc.
These people are hardworking and trying to better themselves. Maybe the American government should do more to help Mexico get straightened out . . .oh, but that would mean Americans not being the number one customer for illegal drugs and that's another thing that feeds both countries that no one acknowledges.
Apparently you are unaware of the fact that 76% of farm workers are U.S. citizens and legal residents, and only an estimated 2-4% of illegal workers are employed in the ag industry. So, obviously, Americans are willing to do the “stoop” work, and a whopping 96-98% of illegals have chosen other “non-stoop” industries.
Why is the U.S. obligated to “straighten out” Mexico?
As far as I know, you have to have working English language skills to gain citizenship in the US.
The Op stated she saw signs stating that you can apply for benefits without citizenship.
The English language skills required for citizenship are rudimentary at best (that's why we have voting pamphlets etc in so many different languages), but there is NO English language requirement for legal residency, so it's not a good indicator on it's own of immigration status imho.
Also the sign said I believe "immigration status" not citizenship. This one frosts my a$$ as well, when you see application forms for benefits that say under SSN "we do not report immigration status", all benefits aren't available for even legal immigrants tho. I know in WA state you can't receive medicaid as a legal migrant unless you've been in the country for a minimum of 5 years.
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 19,437,818 times
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Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts?
As far as I know, you have to have working English language skills to gain citizenship in the US.
The Op stated she saw signs stating that you can apply for benefits without citizenship. She stated that she is the VICTIM of SS fraud. She stated that she would like to send her child to an English speaking school so her child's learning experience moves at a normal pace.
The answers were "How does illegal immigration affect you?" Why not send your kid to a private school?"
My question is why are we forced to pay taxes to support those that don't contribute to our economy? Why should the Op be taxed for schools then required to pay for school for her own child to learn? Why is it the Op is forced to prove her innocence in regard to SS fraud? Why is it that illegals can go to the emergency room and get free health care yet legals have to pay because they can be tracked?
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I guess my real question is why do we have an immigration system at all?
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if we are going to close our eyes
to illegal immigration than let's disband the immigration system completely. It seems quite racist and biased to me to enforce some laws while letting others go. And those that came legally and paid the price should be suing for a refund.
As far as I know, you have to have working English language skills to gain citizenship in the US.
The Op stated she saw signs stating that you can apply for benefits without citizenship. She stated that she is the VICTIM of SS fraud. She stated that she would like to send her child to an English speaking school so her child's learning experience moves at a normal pace.
The answers were "How does illegal immigration affect you?" Why not send your kid to a private school?"
My question is why are we forced to pay taxes to support those that don't contribute to our economy? Why should the Op be taxed for schools then required to pay for school for her own child to learn? Why is it the Op is forced to prove her innocence in regard to SS fraud? Why is it that illegals can go to the emergency room and get free health care yet legals have to pay because they can be tracked?
I guess my real question is why do we have an immigration system at all? if we are going to close our eyes to illegal immigration than let's disband the immigration system completely. It seems quite racist and biased to me to enforce some laws while letting others go. And those that came legally and paid the price should be suing for a refund.
Not any more. The citizenship test is now given out in Spanish.
English is being relagated to "second language" status more and more.
I How do you know they were all illegal? If it's solely because they were speaking Spanish, then yes - you are quite possibly a racist. That sounds more like an issue of welfare abuse, if anything, and has nothing to with nationality. In fact, I'd imagine the majority of welfare abusers are American-born, based on my own personal observations.
Except that Mexico isn't a race, it's a country and Spanish speakers can be white, black, or any race at all.
The majority of welfare abusers *should* be American born. It's one thing for this nation to take care of it's own but to strive to become the flophouse of the world and expect US taxpayers to provide the welfare handouts to the whole world is completely absurd.
I just have a few points that I want to make, and I would sincerely like to know if I am wrong, bigoted, ignorant, or whatever. I obviously think that I am right but I am open to other opinions. (I am speaking of illegal immigrants from Mexico, but my points could conceivably be applied to an illegal immigrant of any country of origin).
I think it's wonderful that you are willing to be open to other's opinions and expereinces. I will say that you shouldn't allow other's to determine whether you are bigoted or not though. There will always be someone with a different point of view. However, after you hear other's point of view, if you then decide that maybe you are seeing things through a very narrow and privilegded lens, well that wouldn;t be a bad thing to re-examine.
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1. Why is it that I cannot just walk over to Mexico and live, expect government help, demand the right to stay, work, receive help for my children and myself, live wherever I want, drive without a license, etc., and have the government and many of the Mexican citizens rally around me in support of my RIGHT to BREAK THE LAW?
I am in school for dentistry, I will be a DDS and I still could not just walk over to Mexico and live (although I have something to offer the country and its citizens). How is this fair or okay?
Well no country should allow people to just be able to walk through borders. But I have a feeling you would have a very easy time getting a Visa to become a citizen of Mexico then a Mexican would have getting a Visa to live in the US. I don't know how much you know about applying for Visas, but it is impossible. Not only does the form and entire process need to be done in English, but the fees are high and then there is still a lottery where the odds are not favorable by any standards.
As for the breaking the law part, well our judicial system even allows for morality and reason. It's againstt he law to kill someone in the US. But if the person who committed the murder can prove they did so to save their own life and that they were in fact a victim, we give allowance for that. We are evolved enough to know that breaking the law is sometimes necessarey. If your family were starving, had no chance for education or work, and no matter how hard you worked (if you could even find work) you knew it would not be enough to even feed and clothe your children...I have a feeling breaking a law in order to save your family might be a little more OK to you.
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2. I used to live in Phoenix, AZ. I was the manager of a McDonald's in high school, and I learned spanish to better communicate with my employees and discovered that I liked the language and continued to practice it. Why is it that I chose to learn a language for the benefit of those employees but many illegal immigrants do not feel the need to learn English?
I lived in Goodyear, AZ for a bit before moving back to Florida. My husband drove down W Main Street every day to get to work. I knew people who refused to drive down that street because it went through the part of Avondale that was like a little Mexico. And of course, everyone spoke Spanish. And coming from Hialeah, Fl. where almost everyone also speaks Spanish (because they are mainly all Cuban or Puerto Rican), I have heard this complaint quite often.
All I can offer as a possible (and probable) answer is from your description of yourself, you seem to be a very well educated, smart individual. Plus you mention you were in high school at the time you learned Spanish (did you learn it in high school?). I have a feeling that it is much easier for a high school student to learn another language then it would be for someone who comes to this country older, and has to work 24/7, with no assistance or classes, a fmaily ot care for, and also has to worry about the possibility of being hunted down and deported every second.
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3. I had considered moving back to Phoenix to be near my brother. Since I have a husband and children now, I am concerned about school quality. I called my brother (who is very pro-illegal immigrant because some of them are his friends and because...well, I don't know) and asked him where in the suburbs of Phoenix could I find a district where there was not a high concentration of illegal children who don't speak much English because I don't want my child to be stuck in a class that moves more slowly in order to help children who don't understand. MY BROTHER CALLED ME RACIST AND COULDN'T UNDERSTAND WHY I FELT THAT WAY AND HUNG UP! I am so sorry that I care about my kids' education and I want them to hear the lessons in English and at a normal pace! Am I wrong for that?
No you are not wrong for wanting the best education for your children. When I moved to Arkansas, I was concerned my kids would get a lower quality education and that the teacher's accents might confuse my kids. I found that even though my DD's class was behind where she was before we had moved, she gained much more. Plus they had gifted programs and other ways for kids to go beyond the classroom curriculum. That said, you are blaming the poor education on immigrants, and maybe that is unfair. Everywhere there are good and bad schools. I'm of the opinion that it is our countries poorly run education systme and NCLB crap that makes our schools behind other's in the world, not immigrants.
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4. Someone in Phoenix used my SS# to work. I did not plan for this additional income in my withholding this year and now I will owe taxes. This happens to more people than me, I am sure. Is this okay?
What?
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5. I took my cousin to the county health department for a doctor's visit. I saw many cars, pickup trucks, and SUVs that I could never afford. SOME of them were owned by people who did not speak english and came to the clinic for free or low cost health care (I can only speak for the ones I saw getting in and out of the cars and coming to the front desk "No ingles..." I will not make any further assumptions although there could have been more). Many girls had one or two or three kids waiting for the OB clinic with their medical cards, wearing nice shoes, nice purses, and gold nameplate necklaces. HOW in the HELL does that work? There are signs up in the clinic, you can apply for medicaid and foodstamps without answering questions about your immigration status...seriously? I am wrong for thinking that is a HORRIBLE policy?
There is so much more but I didn't want this to be as long as it is, so I will stop. Feedback is appreciated, discuss each scenario and whether I am wrong in my feelings/judgments/whatever.
Thanks.
Sigh. You are making a judgment based on your quick observance of what you perceeved to be the truth. You don;t know who owned those cars (maybe the people working at the office?) and you don;t know who those children belonged to (in HIspanic and Latino families it is common for family members to take care of each other's kids, especially when their mother's are working in the field). I am Latina. I have darker skin and curly hair. Sometimes I take my kids (I have 2) and their friends who are over to play to run errands. I guess smeone could look at me and assume with my last name that I have 5 kids. I just think you are assuming a heck of a lot, and to me that is far worse. Plus, just because you "no speaky Ingles" does not mean you are an immigrant.
Last edited by culturedmom; 12-31-2010 at 12:20 PM..
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I am so sorry that I care about my kids' education and I want them to hear the lessons in English and at a normal pace! Am I wrong for that?
