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Judicially speaking, there is not much I can argue with. However, I feel that outlook on policy that is strictly legalistic is incomplete and does not serve society best. If these boards existed in mid 1800's, we could be arguing about slavery on very similar terms (aka the law says it is ok, therefore it is ok). Or, if we were in the 30's, we could be arguing if it is ok to sterilize people with disabilities. Or, early last century, we could be debating whether women or Indians have the right to vote.
I really believe that for a country to be truly great, it needs to take humanitarian concerns into consideration. That is, human suffering needs to be minimized whenever possible. Laws need to be driven by that concern and not exist for their own sake. That is especially true for a country a large segment of which believes that Christianity has a special place in its history and culture.
Back to DACA, imagine a person who rode in on his Mom's shoulders being a few months old. Let's say he is now in mid twenties. While he probably speaks his parents' native language to some degree, he has never been to his parents' country. He has friendships with Americans (likely Hispanic but that should not matter) and has held several jobs here. In any meaningful way this is his land. Sending him to a chaotic country which he has no skills of handling would cause tremendous *suffering*. It would also cause tremendous *suffering* to the part of his family that is legal, as well as friends.
I really feel that *suffering* is unnecessary. We may regret that our border policy has been a mess and may wish that such a situation had never arisen. But what is done is done, we have an individual that is falling through the cracks through no fault of their own, a living and breathing human being. I really see a moral issue there to address which laws need to be adapted.
None of this means being for open borders. I agree that birthright citizenship is insane. I also agree that there needs to be a wall on the Southern border (more of a high tech one rather than brick and mortar). However, we have not had that before and due to not having that we ended up with a lot of people who are completely innocent and that we need to do right by.
By acting in a so-called humanitarian way towards illegal aliens by allowing them to remain here no matter how they got here then it's not being humanitarian towards our own citizens. I choose the latter not the former. You can't have it both ways you have to pick a side. Americans need their jobs back and by allowing these Dreamers to remain here it rewards their parents for bringing them here illegally. What would you do with their parents considering it would be splitting up families if the parents were the only ones deported? I think we know the answer to that one, don't we?
This is not their country no matter what they think or feel. I imagine the families of American law breakers would suffer also when they are convicted of a crime. What should we do not enforce our laws so no one suffers? Being human has nothing to do with it. When a Dreamer turns 18 he/she is responsible for their own status in this country. If they want to blame anyone then they need to blame their parents. Yes, this is a moral issue. It is morally wrong not to enforce our immigration laws and because we haven't Americans have suffered. I for one am not going to pay for the negligence of our government. They owe us to enforce our immigration laws now.
I see that they claim a poll said 70% of Americans said that they want to see DREAMers and their parents get amnesty. Another bogus poll as it doesn't ring true. If that many Americans want amnesty for these amoral people, then how do they explain Trump's win?
It's time for these so-called DREAMers to go back to their own countries. Once there, they can apply to go to college here using a foreign student visa---which is what they should have done in the first place, if they had a moral compass.
When American citizens commit a crime, if they are caught they are arrested, placed in jail or prison.
This causes them to be separated from their families.
The parents of the dreamers are CRIMINALS, they should be deported. And yes, their children will suffer, but that's what happens when a family member commits and is charged witha crime in the US.
Why are these people getting special treatment?
When American citizens commit a crime, if they are caught they are arrested, placed in jail or prison.
This causes them to be separated from their families.
The parents of the dreamers are CRIMINALS, they should be deported. And yes, their children will suffer, but that's what happens when a family member commits and is charged witha crime in the US.
Why are these people getting special treatment?
Exactly right. Worse still honest citizens, who have done no wrong, already suffer. Crimes such as ID theft, murder, rape, drunken drivers with no license and no insurance.
They suffer from lost jobs, low balled by illegals.
It's time that we put the needs of Americans first..
It's probably impossible but anchor babies law should be eliminated.
I don't know of any country that has that and it will resolve a lot of pregnant women from giving birth over here and not paying the medical bill and getting citizenship for their child as a bonus.
It's probably impossible but anchor babies law should be eliminated.
I don't know of any country that has that and it will resolve a lot of pregnant women from giving birth over here and not paying the medical bill and getting citizenship for their child as a bonus.
And I don't know of any other country on the planet in which people cross the border illegally and then start demanding their rights.
Yes, but the heartless Trump supporters don't care. It doesn't matter if they were brought here as a baby and have only know the USA as their home. It doesn't matter if they are positively contributing to society. It doesn't matter if they donate time to charities and have never committed a single crime. THEY ARE HORRIBLE PEOPLE AND MUST BE DEPORTED IMMEDIATELY!!!
It's not heartless for their parents to bring their kids here illegally, taking American jobs, taxes and resources from American families? It's not heartless for them to create crowded conditions in our schools, jails and hospitals and commit ID theft?
Kids often have to move when their parents relocate for a job, etc. They aren't traumatized over it. These Dreamers already know the culture and language of their homelands from their parents. No way should they be rewarded for their parent's law breaking and it would also reward the parents for bringing their kids here illegally. No, none of their so-called accomplishments matter what matters is the rule of law. They would be in direct competition for what few jobs there are. They can return with their parents to their homelands and apply to come back legally. No jumping ahead of the line of those who do it the right way. The process begins in their homelands not on our soil.
No one is saying that they are horrible people for the most part but many of them are attacking Americans for not wanting to give them amnesty and in fact are demanding it. If they had any moral compass they would leave with their parents and apply to come back legally.
It's not just Trump supporters that want our immigration laws respected and enforced either. I know many Democrats that do also.
Using taxpayer money for public defenders to tie up our courts. And holding protests to block our roads.
All the while claiming they have equal rights to an American citizen, not!
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Originally Posted by Seabass2511
Hey! I'm new here and interested to know why you have hate towards these people and want them to go. They are born here just like you. Not attacking you on your view, just interested to hear your thought behind what you wrote.
Many have now cleared this up. It pays to get some background on a subject before posting.
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Originally Posted by nightlysparrow
You do not understand the definition of a "Dreamer." They were not born in the US. Please read the article so you can be properly informed.
"Dreamer"? Yeah, that "dream" went down with Hillary's to be the first female POTUS!
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Originally Posted by candalf
I am generally not very sympathetic to undocumented economic migrants. However, the folks that were brought here as children I see in a different light.
They are human beings like us. Just like it would be unjust to punish us for whatever mistakes our parents have made, it would be unjust to punish "dreamers" for their parents' mistakes. It was not their choice to be here and I think it is morally wrong to shatter their lives based on a technicality alone and in the absence of any delibirate wrong doing on their part.
Furthermore, whatever we may think of the outgoing US Government, it did offer relief for deportations for "dreamers". They trusted that government and registered with it. While the incoming government is different, it is a result of the same democratic process as the last one. Trust in the former should not be betrayed by the latter, otherwise we act like a banana republic in which personal whims trump system integrity and continuity.
Besides, we are talking about less than a million people. It is a tiny drop in our large population. They have been here for most of their lives, speak our language and know no other country. Showing grace and mercy to them would be an action deserving of a truly great nation that has a moral compass. Or have we allowed petty vindictivess to be our primary national motivation?
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Originally Posted by BOS2IAD
Everyday, American citizens go to jail and are separated from their families. They can't take their families to jail with them. It wasn't their kids' choice to be in those circumstances. Do you think it is "morally wrong" that they were separated from their parents? Their lives get "shattered", too.
There should be no double standard for the so-called DREAMers. Speaking of "morals". If these DREAMers were raised with a moral compass, then they should have gotten a foreign student visa to go to college here. Doing so, would involve applying to college as a foreign student. Once accepted into said college, they would get a passport, travel to their own country, visit an American embassy/consulate and get a foreign student visa.
I'll give you an example how DACA is a slap in the face to foreign students who obeyed the laws regarding going to college here:
Student A was born and raised in Mexico. When it is time for him to go to college, he applies to go to a state college in the US. He gets accepted at said college and gets a foreign student visa. Not only that he has to pay out-of-state rates.
Student B was brought here illegally by his parents. When it is time for him to go to college, he applies to go to a state school. Thanks to Obama dictating DACA (which is a slap in the face to foreign students and to American students and green card holders), student B not only gets to go to the state college and gets in-state tuition.
Not all so-called DREAMers have been here "most of their lives" and they do remember their own country. Even if they were brought here as babies, so what? That doesn't give them a right to demand DACA keeps going. If the family gets broken up---it's squarely on the parents' shoulders. It was they who thumbed their noses at our laws and it was they who raised their kids without a moral compass.
It's only "less than a million"? That's "less than a million" college seats that are lost to Americans, legal immigrants and foreign students.
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Originally Posted by Oldglory
I'm not sympathetic to any "illegal aliens". Being human has nothing to do with it. I don't consider deporting these Dreamers and their parents together, family intact, as punishment. To allow the Dreamers to stay would be a separation of families and would reward their parents for bringing them here illegally.
They trusted Obama who bypassed congress with his stay of deportations by EO. He had no right to do that. So no, that doesn't make us a Banana Republic but one where the courts ruled otherwise. It's not about personal whims but our laws and courts.
Less then one million? You don't think these Dreamers wouldn't be demanding that their parents get to stay also aka the ole "separation of families" rhetoric? Most probably also speak the language of their native country. Otherwise how would they have been able to communicate with their parents? They learn both the language and the culture of their native countries thru their parents. There is no moral compass involved in enforcing our immigration laws. Nor is it petty vindictiveness. Either we are a nation of laws or we aren't. We have a shortage of jobs and resources. We don't need to add more to the competition.
They are here illegally. As we know, parents who break rules/laws in our country subject their children to harsh conditions. We have over 1 million citizens that committed non-violent crimes incarcerated and separated from their families. Do you have a link where you are defending them and feeling like the children are being punished in that situation?
Give them the boot! Keep the families together, bungee them on the bus home if you will, but enforce our laws. Laws are in place for a reason. Many parents make stupid mistakes, break laws, etc and the children suffer. The ones that are accountable are the parents.
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Originally Posted by Lyndarn
So immigrants infiltrated into America with babies and toddlers..are truly expected to file paperwork exposing their family to getting deported? What a crock.. DACA specifically has guidelines stipulating AGE ..Ten of course over the many decades of such undocumented children grew up and actually FOUGHT for your Country..LET them get expelled..Sure sounds pretty callous to me.. then of course suggesting such DOCA registered ones are the undesirable ones.
What I keep reading is when Corporations or businesses want LOW WAGE workers..It's grand for their bottomline..BUT when political motivated people want to place balme for whatever ills they believe perpetuated on them THEM ILLEGALS ARE EVIL!!
What about Capitalism? Profits made by companies and yes Government too on placed on their backs..and YES most do pay taxes..YET have no legal avenue to benefit from them..since they are undocumented... It's a one way street..BUT for them..it likely better than what they face in the homeland.. depending on from where they came!
America has changed from the "Statue of Liberty" sentiment of welcome your worn and weary ..to FU..WE don;t want/need you and unwelcome!! Maybe that Statue should be removed ASAP since it give false HOPE to folks seeking a safe place to live. America has become seemingly a very unsafe to be..and targeting them is constantly the attitude reading her by some members. It's a sad day for me. When the few bad actors get painted as exhibit A for the WHOLE!!
Immigrants don't need to file paperwork for their babies and toddlers since that will be on the legal documents that they have with them. My DIL and her son came into the USA legally and there is no extra paperwork that needs to be done. She didn't have to worry about exposing herself or son because she was a legal immigrant. I mean, who would want to involve their children in an illegal act, not my DIL.
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Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ
Fight over throw the Trump administration?
Really?
If there do have a visa /passport or work permit they can be deported in24 hours technically!
I would love to see that. It would really clean up the town and free up some Medicaid dollars for our disabled and elderly.
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Originally Posted by sapphire1
When American citizens commit a crime, if they are caught they are arrested, placed in jail or prison.
This causes them to be separated from their families.
The parents of the dreamers are CRIMINALS, they should be deported. And yes, their children will suffer, but that's what happens when a family member commits and is charged witha crime in the US.
Why are these people getting special treatment?
I could not have said this any better!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMDM
Yes, but the heartless Trump supporters don't care. It doesn't matter if they were brought here as a baby and have only know the USA as their home. It doesn't matter if they are positively contributing to society. It doesn't matter if they donate time to charities and have never committed a single crime. THEY ARE HORRIBLE PEOPLE AND MUST BE DEPORTED IMMEDIATELY!!!
The law is the law. Is it fair that a US citizen is separated from their family if they commit a crime? As I said, we have over 1 million non-violent citizens imprisoned and separated from their families and often, there is no family member to take the children and the children end up in the foster care system.
These "dreamers" are not US citizens. The parents made a bad choice. Parents can do that, but it is not my responsibility to try to make up for all the screw ups of those parents.
I hope they do go rioting and protesting in mass. It will be much easier for immigration officials to locate these people and deport them. Remember, the criminals will be the first to go.
I hope they do go rioting and protesting in mass. It will be much easier for immigration officials to locate these people and deport them. Remember, the criminals will be the first to go.
Yes, but the heartless Trump supporters don't care. It doesn't matter if they were brought here as a baby and have only know the USA as their home. It doesn't matter if they are positively contributing to society. It doesn't matter if they donate time to charities and have never committed a single crime. THEY ARE HORRIBLE PEOPLE AND MUST BE DEPORTED IMMEDIATELY!!!
Blame your Parents. That's who did you wrong. Blaming the people that gave illegal aliens a free ride this entire time is disingenuous.
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Being human has nothing to do with it. When a Dreamer turns 18 he/she is responsible for their own status in this country. If they want to blame anyone then they need to blame their parents. Yes, this is a moral issue. It is morally wrong not to enforce our immigration laws and because we haven't Americans have suffered. I for one am not going to pay for the negligence of our government. They owe us to enforce our immigration laws now.
permit they can be deported in24 hours technically!
