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I just bought a 2014 CR-V (undisclosed location for the time being) and I was clear I didn't want to pay for paint protection, extended warranties or additional charges. I exchanged 20 emails with them and several phone calls. However, there was something strange about their offer; it was lower than many of other dealers.
Some dealers indicated that the 0.9% APR was bound to a $500 dealer cash, and they were clear to me that if I took the 0.9% they couldn't claim the $500, so they had to increase their price. Well, upon that, I rejected their offer. Dealer cash is not an "either/or" offer from Honda. Honda only indicates that it applies to "qualified buyers". Additionally; the dealer’s price on a car is their own decision. If they sell it at a loss, that is their own prerogative.
The dealer I purchased the car from never informed of me of this $500 price increase vs. the 0.9 APR. I was not aware my price was contingent of this. I don't trust car dealers, so I used words like "per our phone conversation", and "as discussed", and as agreed" [...] I would like to take advantage of the 0.9%, and I have perfect credit, so I will have no issues getting it". I was clear I wanted to buy the car at X price and with the special APR.
I took a 1.5 hour train with my wife and baby and just before signing the paperwork, they told me they couldn't "honor the price, and "that if I went ahead with the 0.9% they had to charge me additional $500.
I was clear on many emails that my intention was to buy the vehicle at the agreed X price, and that I wanted to take advantage of the 0.9% APR. They failed to inform me of the "dealer cash"" hidden in the price they offered. The dealer cash is between Honda and the dealer, and not me.
Because I have great credit, I still obtained a 1.49% loan. I put $15K cash down, but the difference in APR increased the cost of my vehicle by close to $300. In other words, they did not honor the price we had agreed.
I had to sign the contract. My wife and child were upset, and after arguing to no end with this Sales Manager, I gave up. I needed the car.
I signed an "Arbitration Form", and they said they found the lowest APR they could. However, this is not only about money, but also about principles and ethics.
I feel they lied to me and my family. What can I do so this doesn't happen to others?
...firstly I would recommend that you help other understand that the tactic of literally "walking out the door" is much more difficult when that walk involves not hopping back into a car (even a rental that your spouse could have driven or perhaps a friend that drives would have accompanied you ...) but hoofing along with said spouse and no doubt tired, perhaps cranky, baby back to a rail station... Many sources of information about car buying, such as Consumer's Reports, strongly recommend coming to a dealer with all the infomation you need to evaluate a deal, a price in mind that allows a fair profit for the dealer and a "back up plan" should the dealer not be willing to meet your price. Generally not having an "easy get away" is discouraged. Commuting 90 minutes via train is not a common way to get to car dealers...
Car dealers know that shoppers who've invested time whether online or in-person are extremely unlikely to "walk away" and they further know that no laws compel them to "honor" a price that they may have used to entice potential buyers into their showroom.
Complaining to the Better Business Bureau will do no good as virtually no shoppers check with them beforehand (perhaps if you did you might've seen that nearly no dealers are highly rated for "honest negoitiation"...).
Similarly complaining to the manufacturer will have no effect becuase, as you've noted, the dealer is an independent business that has the prerogative to sell at whatever "loss" or profit they can based on the willingness of buyers to do a deal... The only principles that matter to most folks involved in the selling of cars is profit and the only ethical limits that come into play are those that are so egregious to result in bad publicity. Sadly your situation does not seem to have enough "abuse" to rise to the level of "bad PR" but in fact is kind of humorous as no doubt others would find some schadenfreude in the thought of some "sharp minded buyer" taking a commuter train to a car dealer with wife and baby in tow... The media likes stories of dealers singling out the elderly facing dementia who trade in an antique Rolls Royce for a used kcar "becuase it has lower maintenance and better fuel economy" but still getting screwed on value, or a mentally incompetent grocery bagger that signed up for 12 years of financing at 20% interst on a Kia that will be $90 out of their $200/wk paycheck, or the dupe that does not know English and agreed to have $14000 worth of dealer installed options on their 5 year old used Hyundai that was smoking oil off the lot. You don't frankly seem stupid / pathetic enough, Frank. It is $300, not $3000...
Perhaps you can spend more of you time spreading the word of how you were lied to. Very few people would care. It may be better to just figure out a way to not let your wife and child feel secondary to your loss of pride...
Last edited by chet everett; 08-20-2014 at 10:20 AM..
Quite frankly I would have left and gone to a different dealer. They did not earn the deal or your trust. They created an unhappy customer who won't return except for warranty work you cannot have done elsewhere. Even worse you will not recommend them.
It is not easy, but you have to go in armed with the price you will pay for the exact vehicle you wish to purchase. There is to be no negotiation: this is my offer, take it or leave it.
And as you point out, never, never, ever add on financing, undercoating, loan insurance, wheel shine, floor mats or any of the other things which make the deal really juicy...for the dealer.
By all means contact the manufacturer. One small step......
The issue here is not only money, but ethics. Before, I go ahead and present my complaint with Honda, BBB, and a myriad of online forums, I wanted to receive some feedback. Perhaps, I am inflating the situation. However, I strongly feel that even a penny over the agreed price is a violation of our discussions.
A few things to consider are as follows:
I was quoted a better price than anyone in Chicago by close to $2,000. I emailed dealers in 150 miles and had them bid against each other, it was fun! Additionally, I negotiated some accessories. Regardless, they set their price.
I knew this dealer added paint protection and security options as dealer installed options. I read it on Edmunds, and BBB. This is why I had everything in writing, and asked specifically for absolutely nothing extra. Therefore, they had to include those on the original quote. I successfully skipped that.
Although, it adds some "drama" to the situation, the train ride was more fun the driving. I don't think this would've been the case with my wife, tho'. We were both prepared mentally to take the train back, and had discussed it beforehand.
This dealer offered pick up and drop off at the train station. In the worst case, I would've gone home and pick up a different vehicle in Schaumburg for another $1,000 the same day.
Three hundred dollars over $27,000 is not much. In fact, I will pay the loan much sooner than that, but as I said above is not only about money, but also about ethics. Yes, I saved a lot of money with this purchase, but I worked hard for it with my research.
What I dislike the most, is the vicious last minute change where they couldn't "honor their price". To their credit, they obtained a 1.49% APR, lower than anyone I've seen online, but still that is not enough. I feel they lied to me. Moreover, I wonder how many people had seen worst treatment. They knew I had asked for the price at that rate, and I find that despicable they didn't honor it.
What if I didn't know about their pre-installed packages? Well, that would've added $700 to the purchase.
What if I didn't have a great credit record and had to walk away with a 7% APR?
I wonder, how many people had experienced simlar abuse by this arrogant dealer? This is why I am considering exposing this case publicly in BBB, edmunds, cars.com, truecar, dealerrater, etc.
This post may help me define my complaint.
Last edited by chitownster; 08-20-2014 at 01:09 PM..
Reason: Spelling
Quite frankly I would have left and gone to a different dealer. They did not earn the deal or your trust. They created an unhappy customer who won't return except for warranty work you cannot have done elsewhere. Even worse you will not recommend them.
Incorrect. I can have the warranty work done at any other Honda dealer.
I could, however, go back for the "paint protection package" every six months. The price I paid "included" dealer added extras, for I was clear I didn't want anything extra, and had that in writing. So, I wasn't charged at the end.
Yes, I feel I received a great deal (financially), but after dealing with dozens of dealers, I realized they are all a bunch of deceiving liers.
The dealer agreed to sell you a car for a specific price. Whether it was better, or worse than, someone else's price is irrelevant.
The simply fact is that you were subject to a bait and switch shenanigan, which is highly unethical, and probably illegal.
The only thing you did "wrong" was to go ahead with a deal, even though it was not the deal which you had been promised.
Don't make it about anything else.
Yes, it crossed my mind to skip it. I even called dealers on my train ride there, and the closest bidder was still over $1,000. So, I still saved money, but the lie burns. I don't' know if this is illegal, maybe I should report it to the State Attorney.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Bear
Don't make it about anything else.
I care for people and I do plenty of volunteering. I think knowledge is power, and I respect honesty. So, yes, it is about other people too. Am I inflating this too much? I don't think so.
Last edited by chitownster; 08-20-2014 at 01:38 PM..
You couldn't have been completely surprised since you heard from multiple other dealers that the 0.9% offer would cost you $500 more. The dealer you bought from either made a mistake or told you what you wanted to hear. Either way, the final terms were completely disclosed at the dealership before a binding agreement was made. You didn't like the terms, but you signed anyway. At that point, you have to take responsibility. There's nothing you can do now but suck up the $300 in extra interest and give the seller a bad survey when it comes from the manufacturer.
Did you do as much research on the quality of customer service you could expect at the various Honda stores as you did on price? My guess is probably not. You went 90 minutes away chasing the lowest price and when the deal wasn't what you thought, you capitulated to your mental fatigue instead of walking. By doing so, you rewarded the sloppy/crooked dealer at the expense of the other dealers who shot you straight. You're actually contributing to the problem by reinforcing bad behavior.
You couldn't have been completely surprised since you heard from multiple other dealers that the 0.9% offer would cost you $500 more. The dealer you bought from either made a mistake or told you what you wanted to hear. Either way, the final terms were completely disclosed at the dealership before a binding agreement was made. You didn't like the terms, but you signed anyway. At that point, you have to take responsibility.
The prices oscillated between $1,000 to $2,600 higher for the same vehicle. How could I know what the bottom line was? I have no control over their profit margins.
I was not surprised at all when at the last minute they brought this $500 dealer cash (read the definition of dealer cash, this is mostly never disclosed to the buyer), but I was disappointed. I set my request clearly and firmly. "I want x car, without y and z, at 0.9% APR. Can you offer that? Yes. Ok, I will buy it."
I obtained X car, with X+accessories, without Y and Z (already pre installed), but 0.9% wasn't provided. That is the gist of my rant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by madpaddy
There's nothing you can do now but suck up the $300 in extra interest and give the seller a bad survey when it comes from the manufacturer.
I know I can't do anything about the money, I decided to buy the car. I was still saving money, but as I said multiples times, this is about ethics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by madpaddy
Did you do as much research on the quality of customer service you could expect at the various Honda stores as you did on price? My guess is probably not.
You guess is wrong. I researched BBB, Edmunds, Cars.com. Additionally, exchanging emails with over a dozen of dealers clearly showed their tactics, and most were deleted after a few rounds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by madpaddy
You went 90 minutes away chasing the lowest price and when the deal wasn't what you thought, you capitulated to your mental fatigue instead of walking. By doing so, you rewarded the sloppy/crooked dealer at the expense of the other dealers who shot you straight. You're actually contributing to the problem by reinforcing bad behavior.
I can't compare the experience with other dealers. Unfortunately, I can't buy new cars from all of them to find out. It seems you are assuming other dealers don't have their own tactics, additional costs, financing scams, or perhaps you think that some dealers that are honest. One thing I learned during this research is that they all have a scheme.
Did I reward a dealer for selling a car at $1,000 less than my lowest bidder with over $300 in accessories plus $700 in pre-installed packages? Well, that's debatable.
Why was the lowest bidder $1,000 over this price without any accessories? Are they not crooked also by also selling cars at higher costs, even if they tell you what the higher cost is up front? What about their own pre installed packages?
Yes, the deal didn't go exactly as planned, but ultimately I played the dealer's game and came out ahead financially. However, it's horrendous that they all see these maneuvers as the way to do business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by madpaddy
give the seller a bad survey when it comes from the manufacturer.
This is the point of my post. I'm trying to tame my wrath before providing a business that employs real people and supports real families with an extremely bad review. Also, I want to prevent people.
Thanks for your feedback everyone.
Last edited by chitownster; 08-20-2014 at 04:28 PM..
Reason: spelling
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