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Old 11-09-2012, 08:06 AM
 
41,110 posts, read 25,745,785 times
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small business who set up mortgage ending shells? It sounds like you are grouping all small business into bankers who are NOT small businesses. As for making banks making loans to every deadbeat that came along, I do agree that these people should not have been approved but the democratic thinking is "everyone deserves to own" even if they can't afford it... right.

Bush warned about the housing crash 17 times, he warned that the terms were too lose but no one would listen.

If you have common sense and some bank dangles a carrot in front of you (easy loan terms) you should know if you could afford it or not. Most didn't care, they signed the dotted line. And it is the people who are responsible that are "once again" paying the price.

Subsidize -> Bubble -> Crash
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:07 AM
 
41,110 posts, read 25,745,785 times
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Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Like hell it has. The companies I have been dealing with have had two different sets of plans, each one depending on who won the election. But despite seminars, consultants, and all kinds of articles, no one has a clear picture of what Obamacare is really going to do once it is implemented. It is a mess of a law, ill-considered, extraordinarily complex, and wholly unrealistic when taking into account how most companies operate.
Who said,... you have to pass the law to see what's in it. lol
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Wouldn't you like to know?
9,116 posts, read 17,731,709 times
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Originally Posted by richrf View Post
With this type of intransigence, the debt problem will never be solved.

I would love to see Government debt slashed by cutting waste and the time to begin is now. However, if government debt went down to zero immediately, the economy will tank. Government debt is now 6% of GNP.

So, what would be a reasonable course? Increase revenue by putting a cap on deductions and/or allow interest rates to rise a small increment. Also, stop the silly subsidies of ethanol, oil companies, etc. At the same time, begin cutting the ludicrous and wasteful spending on healthcare (we spend way more than any other Western country as a percent of GDP with no benefits), defense (we spend more than the next six largest countries), and other pork barrel projects. Simpson/Boles had it right.

This would be a reasonable approach. Suggesting that the top 1 or 2% of the wealthiest people in this country could not afford to pay additional taxes (they have been gaming the tax code for their benefit for the last 20 years), is not reasonable and will not get us anywhere. I think most Americans are beyond this line of thinking, because it makes no sense if we want to solve our economic problems.
I for the life of me don't understand why people are not in favor of Simpson Bowles...

It tackles entitlements and increases revenue by broadening the base.

Everyone must realize that they won't get 100% of what they want in any deal. its called a "DEAL" for a reason....

Why are politicians not in favor of this..? Can someone explain?
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,559 posts, read 4,630,780 times
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Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Like hell it has. The companies I have been dealing with have had two different sets of plans, each one depending on who won the election. But despite seminars, consultants, and all kinds of articles, no one has a clear picture of what Obamacare is really going to do once it is implemented. It is a mess of a law, ill-considered, extraordinarily complex, and wholly unrealistic when taking into account how most companies operate.
Pretty close to absurd. How can any company make plans on whether Romney is re-elected? Who knows what would happen (do you think Romney can jettison Obamacare on day one?), when it will happen and what the effects might be? Can you share with us your assumptions for your plan?

What has been factored in is continued deficit spending, the mother's milk for all of those who depend upon Government spending to continue unabated. Now, it may actually change ... maybe.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:28 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,559 posts, read 4,630,780 times
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Originally Posted by CouponJack View Post
I for the life of me don't understand why people are not in favor of Simpson Bowles...

It tackles entitlements and increases revenue by broadening the base.

Everyone must realize that they won't get 100% of what they want in any deal. its called a "DEAL" for a reason....

Why are politicians not in favor of this..? Can someone explain?
Good question.

The answer is that Republicans and Democrats talk out of both sides of their mouths. They say they want to end the deficit spending but they do not. Wasteful government spending is the way that politicians pay back their benefactors who fund their campaigns and keep them in office. It is a very tight and closed loop. The people who gain the most from wasteful spending are those who complain the most. The feign their desire to end it (those crocodile tears) in order to get elected (we have Board Member in our Condo Assoc. who do exactly the same thing) and then spend money like crazy to pay back their benefactors.

What may cause a change? A crisis. Our country is fundamentally bankrupt. We are staying afloat by printing money which in essence is raiding the savings of every ones bank account and earning power of every worker (devaluation of money). It is destroying our economy and some well meaning CEOs are finally calling a stop to it. When money talks politicians listen.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:44 AM
 
41,110 posts, read 25,745,785 times
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Originally Posted by richrf View Post
Good question.

The answer is that Republicans and Democrats talk out of both sides of their mouths. They say they want to end the deficit spending but they do not. Wasteful government spending is the way that politicians pay back their benefactors who fund their campaigns and keep them in office. It is a very tight and closed loop. The people who gain the most from wasteful spending are those who complain the most. The feign their desire to end it (those crocodile tears) in order to get elected (we have Board Member in our Condo Assoc. who do exactly the same thing) and then spend money like crazy to pay back their benefactors.

What may cause a change? A crisis. Our country is fundamentally bankrupt. We are staying afloat by printing money which in essence is raiding the savings of every ones bank account and earning power of every worker (devaluation of money). It is destroying our economy and some well meaning CEOs are finally calling a stop to it. When money talks politicians listen.
Exactly. It is something that people who are getting other peoples money don't even realize that the value of the money they are getting buys less. The people who did the right thing and saved, the value of their money is also reduced. The people hoping for the raise they most likely will not get it will be worth less anyway. If they are lucky they actually got less but have to pay more in taxes.

And why I always say "never" give the government a mandate to increase taxes because it will "never" be enough money for them. They will just reach in your pocket for more.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,559 posts, read 4,630,780 times
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Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
Exactly. It is something that people who are getting other peoples money don't even realize that the value of the money they are getting buys less. The people who did the right thing and saved, the value of their money is also reduced. The people hoping for the raise they most likely will not get it will be worth less anyway. If they are lucky they actually got less but have to pay more in taxes.

And why I always say "never" give the government a mandate to increase taxes because it will "never" be enough money for them. They will just reach in your pocket for more.
I have no problem getting some of that money back from the top 1% that they stole from the country (by gaming the rules and controlling the Federal Reserve), if there are substantial cuts in spending. This is essentially what Simpson-Boles suggested and this is why both Democrats and Republicans shot it down. The rich want to keep all of their ill gotten gains plus they want the Federal government to keep spending money like crazy so that they can keep reaping the rewards.
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Old 11-09-2012, 09:09 AM
 
28,895 posts, read 54,171,925 times
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Originally Posted by richrf View Post
Pretty close to absurd. How can any company make plans on whether Romney is re-elected? Who knows what would happen (do you think Romney can jettison Obamacare on day one?), when it will happen and what the effects might be? Can you share with us your assumptions for your plan?
And you would know this how? I walk into a lot of executive suites of a lot of mid-sized companies. I sit at the table and listen to them plan for the year ahead. This is exactly the kind of conversations I hear.

What's more, it's not just me. Here's just a sample of what's about to happen due to the costs of Obamacare hitting the income statements. This is just the tip of the freaking iceberg:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/...-obamacare-be/

Last edited by cpg35223; 11-09-2012 at 09:17 AM..
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Old 11-09-2012, 09:10 AM
 
41,110 posts, read 25,745,785 times
Reputation: 13868
Quote:
Originally Posted by richrf View Post
I have no problem getting some of that money back from the top 1% that they stole from the country (by gaming the rules and controlling the Federal Reserve), if there are substantial cuts in spending. This is essentially what Simpson-Boles suggested and this is why both Democrats and Republicans shot it down. The rich want to keep all of their ill gotten gains plus they want the Federal government to keep spending money like crazy so that they can keep reaping the rewards.
AGAIN, small business and middle class are not able to game the rules. If anyone games the rules it is big business and the welfare LAZY.
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Old 11-09-2012, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,559 posts, read 4,630,780 times
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Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
AGAIN, small business and middle class are not able to game the rules. If anyone games the rules it is big business and the welfare LAZY.
Forget for a while about the fringe in our society. You cannot build an economy around the behavior of crooks. The best thing to do is focus in was is doable. I just heard on CNBC that Santelli/Norquist faction is open to raising revenue on the wealthy. Compromise may be possible. Great for the economy. Great for the 90% of us who don't game the system. Terrible (over the short term) for the stock market which loves trillion dollar debts and the accompanying Federal Reserve money printing mountain.
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