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An investor might have gotten out of the queens property instead of sitting on it, avoiding a poor habit as you say. Much like a bad habit of jumping out of the market in a short period.
Was queens a residential property you lived in? If so that wasn’t a 100% investment as it was also a place to live. When you pick a place to live it isn’t always based on investment factors.
Why are you comparing an entire portfolio of equities against a single property in queens? It would be more fair to compare a portfolio of properties. That’s about as fair as taking a good performing real estate unit and comparing it to a stock that just sat .
I’ve already agreed with you that if one has a long time frame and a steady income to contribute like your 30 years, the market is an easy an profitable way to go to reach financial independence
But I still would like you to show me how someone who is in their mid to late 50s can achieve this in a short time. 30 years sounds great if they live that long. Retire at 85?
Even more so , be sufficiently employed throughout the senior years without interruption so they can contribute.
I’m just asking you to show me how I can reach financial independence in five years with 650k in the market, with no job.
Show me that and I’ll start using my 6 figure cash flow and maybe pull cash out of the properties.
Again I’ll not argue about the 30 year path. I’ll give you that.
The topic was why people invest in real estate. Most of your argument is always you don’t want to be a landlord in retirement. I get that, you’re older and have your money now.
But that has little bearing on those investing now for their future. Or those who want more control or ability to force appreciation in a shorter time than waiting for 30 years.
Show me how my $30k house plus 15k rehab for a total $45k and appraises a 80 to 100% gain in 30 days can be better spent in the market . Your equities average 11% over 30 years. The cash flow on that house can average 13 percent on top of that each year.
If one flipped that house and repeated it 2 more times a year after transaction costs they could wind up getting a 200% return in one year. Again show me in the market a 200 percent return.
If one cash out refinanced that house they would get $55k or more meaning they get their $45 k back and an extra 10k. Meanwhile they still have an equity position of about $30k in that house with nothing invested money wise plus a cash flow of a few thousand a year from nothing out of pocket.
Real estate when done right can help someone reach financial independence in a much shorter time than 30 years like it did for me in 5 years. One can actively affect value instead sitting powerless on the sidelines waiting 30 years and hoping the market goes up. I’m sure it will, but it would sure suck if after 30 years it didn’t. I’d rather reach fi in 5 years and know I was set. If it doesn’t happen you still have 25 more years to do something.
typical accumulation periods run decades .... even at 65 we have money we hopefully won't eat with for 25-30 years so both time frames have very long times for passive investments to grow .
An investor might have gotten out of the queens property instead of sitting on it, avoiding a poor habit as you say. Much like a bad habit of jumping out of the market in a short period.
Was queens a residential property you lived in? If so that wasn’t a 100% investment as it was also a place to live. When you pick a place to live it isn’t always based on investment factors.
Why are you comparing an entire portfolio of equities against a single property in queens? It would be more fair to compare a portfolio of properties. That’s about as fair as taking a good performing real estate unit and comparing it to a stock that just sat .
I’ve already agreed with you that if one has a long time frame and a steady income to contribute like your 30 years, the market is an easy an profitable way to go to reach financial independence
But I still would like you to show me how someone who is in their mid to late 50s can achieve this in a short time. 30 years sounds great if they live that long. Retire at 85?
Even more so , be sufficiently employed throughout the senior years without interruption so they can contribute.
I’m just asking you to show me how I can reach financial independence in five years with 650k in the market, with no job.
Show me that and I’ll start using my 6 figure cash flow and maybe pull cash out of the properties.
Again I’ll not argue about the 30 year path. I’ll give you that.
The topic was why people invest in real estate. Most of your argument is always you don’t want to be a landlord in retirement. I get that, you’re older and have your money now.
But that has little bearing on those investing now for their future. Or those who want more control or ability to force appreciation in a shorter time than waiting for 30 years.
Show me how my $30k house plus 15k rehab for a total $45k and appraises a 80 to 100% gain in 30 days can be better spent in the market . Your equities average 11% over 30 years. The cash flow on that house can average 13 percent on top of that each year.
If one flipped that house and repeated it 2 more times a year after transaction costs they could wind up getting a 200% return in one year. Again show me in the market a 200 percent return.
If one cash out refinanced that house they would get $55k or more meaning they get their $45 k back and an extra 10k. Meanwhile they still have an equity position of about $30k in that house with nothing invested money wise plus a cash flow of a few thousand a year from nothing out of pocket.
Real estate when done right can help someone reach financial independence in a much shorter time than 30 years like it did for me in 5 years. One can actively affect value instead sitting powerless on the sidelines waiting 30 years and hoping the market goes up. I’m sure it will, but it would sure suck if after 30 years it didn’t. I’d rather reach fi in 5 years and know I was set. If it doesn’t happen you still have 25 more years to do something.
my ex wife is living in the queens co-op for the last 15 years .... but considering i paid 75k in 1987 and today they are 180k and rent started at 850 and is 1800 today the area is like i said MEH ....''
the problem is the areas that bordered the subway lines were very bad 30 years ago .. they all were gentrified and became hot areas ...so the good areas that existed were left for the new hot areas ..our share of the lease rights alone brought in 25k for each partner and we only held a 10% stake
On the other hand manhattan and the Central Park area are always prime ..... so our real estate was actually enough by itself to support us as a business would ... it is all held in an LLC and pretty much Douglas elliman worked for us and handled the business end ... don’t forget we held the lease rights to some pretty big businesses that are located in the building and they have all sorts of stuff to get involved with.... for a 500k investment we got multiple 7 figures out so far ..
Last edited by mathjak107; 02-03-2019 at 12:03 PM..
Two many here, are only looking at part of the reason people invest in real estate. The benefits when all are combined, determine the reasons knowledgeable people invest in real estate.
Real Estate Investing, is evaluated by the Total Return On Invested Dollars.
The sum of those four returns are the Total Return On Invested Dollars.
This measure of real estate, has been done since late 1970s, and by 1980s the Wall Street Journal had a big article explaining why this is the standard for measuring the potential value of owning investment real estate from single family homes, to largest commercial shopping centers.
If you look at two or more properties, properly prepare a Total Return On Invested Dollar Analysis, you can determine which property would be the best investment for you to make.
Then you do an analysis with different down payments, and financing plans, to determine which will give you the highest Total Return On Invested Dollars.
Another benefit, is you can buy say 6 rental homes over a 5 year period, and want to move up to an apartment house, and owe no capital gains tax at that time by doing a 1031, Tax Deferred Exchange, trading those 6 houses as a down payment on the apartment house as an example. The law says it has to be like kind property for like kind property.
Like kind only means real estate that has been held for investment. You can exchange a highly appreciated 20 acre parcel of bare ground, for an apartment house of equal or higher value, and owe no Capital Gains or Income Tax in the process as an example. You establish a new basis, and you can continue to trad up without paying taxes till your death, and the heirs can then sell with no tax consequences on what may be considerable gain in value over the years.
Real Estate can be a very profitable investment medium, if carefully selected, and properly maintained.
Most of us always vet and pick the right tenants carefully .. but if you are a landlord long enough , eventually DIVORCE -ILLNESS -JOB LOSS turns even the best of them bad and their problems become your problem
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
10,351 posts, read 8,572,211 times
Reputation: 16698
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107
typical accumulation periods run decades .... even at 65 we have money we hopefully won't eat with for 25-30 years so both time frames have very long times for passive investments to grow .
I will do it your way if you can promise I will still be alive to collect!
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
10,351 posts, read 8,572,211 times
Reputation: 16698
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107
Most of us always vet and pick the right tenants carefully .. but if you are a landlord long enough , eventually DIVORCE -ILLNESS -JOB LOSS turns even the best of them bad and their problems become your problem
Of course, but you get rid of the problem and move on. If you are in the market long enough those great stocks can turn south and those companies that have problems , those problems are now your problems.
My first 2 years of my photography business I was talking with a colleague and telling her I had no problem clients. She said,”you mean yet”.
True enough eventually I did get them. But you deal with it and move on and in the scheme of things you come out ahead. You get a string of clients all ordering $4000 or more. Then eventually you get one that spends $100 or worse asks for a refund. You deal with it and continue on and in the end you turn a profit.
Over the last few years I have seen a lot of people on cd have been hooting and hollering on all the money they made in the market. Then the last few months it was bad and some people started freaking out. Was it the end of the world?
No, it will pass and even now it’s recovering.
You yourself told people stay the course, it’s a dip that will eventually recover. Look at the long game, not the short.
If you are in real estate, Getting a bad renter is just a matter of time, but it too is a dip like what you get in the market. I can’t understand why you continually bring up a good renter may possibly turn bad on you. You act as if once it happens it will always be bad forever for the real estate investor.
It’s temporary just like a bad run in the market. If you get a bad renter you can take action to remove them. In the market if it goes south, all you can do is sit on your hands and wait.
I get bad tenants still, but it’s all factored in and in the end I get them out and still at the end of the year make money. If a good tenant turns bad and it becomes that big of a problem like you say it is, then part of the blame is on you on being a poor real estate investor.
Talking to several people and they all had some type of real estate investment where they buy a low priced home, put some upgrades and then rent the house.
Is this a long term strategy? I honestly don't understand whats so popular about it.
Rental income and perhaps long term appreciation, what’s not to understand?
Talking to several people and they all had some type of real estate investment where they buy a low priced home, put some upgrades and then rent the house.
Is this a long term strategy? I honestly don't understand whats so popular about it.
Yes, a long term strategy. I currently have 3 rentals and have a nice monthly income from them...I like that.
I was thinking about getting into Fundrise but my initial capital wouldn't be liquid. I wonder if my monthly dividends would be?
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