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Old 07-19-2009, 10:24 PM
 
540 posts, read 932,458 times
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PTTDX is no load. At least at big brokers like Schwab or Scottrade.

Pimco‚€™s Gross Reduces Mortgage Holdings, Adds to Cash Position - Bloomberg.com The financial crisis, which started with the collapse of the U.S. property market in 2007, has triggered $1.51 trillion of writedowns and credit losses at banks and sent the global economy into its first recession since World War II.
The Total Return Fund returned 10.9 percent in the past year, beating 96 percent of its peers, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The one-month return is 1.2 percent, outpacing 45 percent of its competitors. The company, based in Newport Beach, California, is a unit of Munich-based insurer Allianz SE.

Bill Gross is so important he's got his own Bloomberg article 8)

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/business/21gross.html

Not really, he is. Pimco Total Return is the the best mutual fund out of the top 20 largest mutual funds (10 year performance), and is the largest mutual fund for a reason. It's also the only bond fund out of the top 20 largest, take that however you will with regards to where bond investors are parking their money.

Bonds are consistent, companies aren't.... At least, so far, in its long history, the US hasn't defaulted. Once, Dell, Microsoft, Target were hot, now they're not. Again, if you have a crystal ball, go ahead and pick companies that you think will sustain growth and continue to pay out dividends.
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Old 07-20-2009, 03:22 AM
 
2,060 posts, read 2,331,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
The problem with PIMCO is you have to pay a load, so it's not worth it unless you can get it in your 401k.

If you like bond funds, just buy the Vanguard Intermediate Bond Index.
VBIIX. Or Dodge and Cox Income DODIX.

Or if you want something racier that try Loomis Sayles Bond...LSBRX. It has actually performed better than PTTAX over the last 10 years, albeit with a lot more volatility. LSBRX owns international and some junk bonds as well as investment grade.

Unlike Pimco, all of the funds I mentioned are no-load.
Funny that you would mention both DODIX and LSBRX. I used to own DODIX through my online broker and there was a fee to buy and sell that fund. I just checked my spreadsheet and I paid $35 to buy it, and I think around $50 to sell it. Ouch. It is a good income fund though.

I also owned NBHIX (Neuberger Berman High Yield fund) and it was a no-load fund sold through the online broker. I liked it and wanted to get back in later, but it had been merged into Loomis Sayles, LSBRX.
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Old 07-20-2009, 03:39 PM
 
540 posts, read 932,458 times
Reputation: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teak View Post
Rubber factory has answered your last question so I will let that one go.

You bring up one of the primary reasons NOT to invest in mutual funds: you cannot avoid the effects of the herd mentality. When the market tanks, everyone and his brother pulls their money out and the "manager" is forced to sell into a falling market. When the market is euphoric, everyone jumps on the band-wagon and the "manager" may feel compelled to buy into a rising market. (Not every manager does that; some will hold large cash positions until the "investors" start to complain.)

If you want to invest wisely, you need to do the opposite: sell into a rising market, and buy into a falling market (or when it has bottomed out).

I was invested throughout the market crash last year and early this year. I did not sell a single share, in fact, I used the February and March lows to add to positions in some of the companies that I own. A mutual fund manager cannot do that because he has to follow the herd.

I am with Rubber Factory: tell us the name, or give us the symbol, of these outstanding funds of which you speak. Bill Miller was famous for his unbroken string of out-performance, 15 years in a row beating his comparative index. Last year his mutual fund crashed big time, lagging the indexes. It happens to the best of them.

Dividend investing is the only way to build up wealth consistently, over a long period of time. Have you read Jeremy Siegel's The Future for Investors? It is based upon research, not anecdotes.
Teak, you don't like a mutual fund to have a lot of cash, why? Because of your state above scenario, isn't more cash better to preserve the value of the fund? Even with all that cash, Pimco Total Return is still an above average performer.
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Old 07-20-2009, 08:30 PM
 
12,673 posts, read 13,641,987 times
Reputation: 2525
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teak View Post
Rubber factory has answered your last question so I will let that one go.

You bring up one of the primary reasons NOT to invest in mutual funds: you cannot avoid the effects of the herd mentality. When the market tanks, everyone and his brother pulls their money out and the "manager" is forced to sell into a falling market. When the market is euphoric, everyone jumps on the band-wagon and the "manager" may feel compelled to buy into a rising market. (Not every manager does that; some will hold large cash positions until the "investors" start to complain.)

If you want to invest wisely, you need to do the opposite: sell into a rising market, and buy into a falling market (or when it has bottomed out).

I was invested throughout the market crash last year and early this year. I did not sell a single share, in fact, I used the February and March lows to add to positions in some of the companies that I own. A mutual fund manager cannot do that because he has to follow the herd.

I am with Rubber Factory: tell us the name, or give us the symbol, of these outstanding funds of which you speak. Bill Miller was famous for his unbroken string of out-performance, 15 years in a row beating his comparative index. Last year his mutual fund crashed big time, lagging the indexes. It happens to the best of them.

Dividend investing is the only way to build up wealth consistently, over a long period of time. Have you read Jeremy Siegel's The Future for Investors? It is based upon research, not anecdotes.
Same here the market crash did not slow me down. I continued to invest as usual. We will gain much faster then someone who just getting in the market because of Dollar Cost average.
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Old 07-20-2009, 08:39 PM
 
2,060 posts, read 2,331,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhtrico1850 View Post
Teak, you don't like a mutual fund to have a lot of cash, why? Because of your state above scenario, isn't more cash better to preserve the value of the fund? Even with all that cash, Pimco Total Return is still an above average performer.
Yes, Bill Gross is the genius behind Pimco bond funds. If he was to leave, or retire.....?

I don't like mutual funds to hold a lot of cash because people invest in mutual funds to be invested. If they wanted to hold their money in cash for the poor interest rates that banks pay, then they would do that themselves. Still, fund managers should be able to hold money in cash temporarily while waiting for better investment ideas.
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Old 07-20-2009, 08:43 PM
 
540 posts, read 932,458 times
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It is not a one-man one-fund one-trick shop.

Mohamed A. El-Erian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pacific Investment Management Company LLC Company Profile - Yahoo! Finance

$800 billion managed?! lawdy lawdy
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Old 07-21-2009, 06:15 PM
 
540 posts, read 932,458 times
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Bill Gross is a genius and I guess his friends at PIMCO aren't too bad either. Today, July 21, 2009, PTTDX hit a 2009 NAV high of 10.59. Even in the face of roaring equities! Take a guess how it'll do once people stop smoking the green shoots.
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Old 07-23-2009, 07:59 PM
 
12,673 posts, read 13,641,987 times
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Anyone have Vanguard STAR?
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Old 07-26-2009, 08:29 PM
 
14,656 posts, read 12,631,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teak View Post
Funny that you would mention both DODIX and LSBRX. I used to own DODIX through my online broker and there was a fee to buy and sell that fund. I just checked my spreadsheet and I paid $35 to buy it, and I think around $50 to sell it. Ouch. It is a good income fund though.

I also owned NBHIX (Neuberger Berman High Yield fund) and it was a no-load fund sold through the online broker. I liked it and wanted to get back in later, but it had been merged into Loomis Sayles, LSBRX.
Your broker is ripping you off for charging you to buy and sell those funds. You can go to Doge & Cox and buy from them directly for no fee.

I haven't had very good luck with my high yield bond fund, Northeast Investors Trust. It had a horrible year in 2008, even compared to other high yield funds. This year it is doing better, but is only a little ahead of the other high yield funds. It's very hard to find a high yield fund that is a consistent performer.

That said, Loomis Sayles Bond (LSBRX) is a great fund. I've had it for several years, and bought more shares late last year and early this year and I'm glad I did because the fund has bounced back nicely.
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Old 07-26-2009, 08:32 PM
 
14,656 posts, read 12,631,208 times
Reputation: 10621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas User View Post
Anyone have Vanguard STAR?
I don't but it is a decent fund. Personally, I think Vanguard Wellington will be a better performer over the long run, but there's no guarantee I'm right and STAR is certainly a decent fund.
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