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I love the Landing, it's Jacksonville's most famous landmark. When people think of Jacksonville, The Landing is almost always at the top of the list. You just have to go on certain nights because not every night the Landing is going to be bustling.
This is true. The Landing is a Landmark, not sure why its not acknowledged as one. Jacksonville always seems to downplay its important locations, like The Landing, 5 Points, San Marco Square, Friendship Fountain & Hemming Plaza. The list goes on.
KerryB is right, there are people who want to be on the Northbank living & playing but they are priced out. This thread has more to do with Jacksonville neglect of downtown(Northbank) then it does the Landing.
I love the Landing, it's Jacksonville's most famous landmark. When people think of Jacksonville, The Landing is almost always at the top of the list. You just have to go on certain nights because not every night the Landing is going to be bustling.
What nights? I'll be there New Year's Eve after the Gator Bowl parade (unless it's 28 degrees) - and I know it will be packed then. But if it's dead 45 minutes after 50,000+ people watch the Jaguars win an important game - well what's with that? Robyn
This is true. The Landing is a Landmark, not sure why its not acknowledged as one. Jacksonville always seems to downplay its important locations, like The Landing, 5 Points, San Marco Square, Friendship Fountain & Hemming Plaza. The list goes on.
KerryB is right, there are people who want to be on the Northbank living & playing but they are priced out. This thread has more to do with Jacksonville neglect of downtown(Northbank) then it does the Landing.
No - I started this thread and it has to do with the Landing. And I know most of the obvious legal ownership stuff - and all the fights about parking - etc. - etc. mentioned above. Which means I realize there would be quite a few problems in changing it. But it's a dump. Plain and simple. Sleiman's strip shopping center on Marsh Landing Parkway probably does a better business. And Stonewood Grill there is a better restaurant than anything at the Landing.
Perhaps I remember wrong - but I think the COJ spent $2.5 million on those stupid pavers that everyone hates (and they are totally ridiculous IMO). What are these people smoking? To think that putting a lot of bumpy rocks in the road in front of the Landing is going to improve it? GMAB.
Anyway - the point of my thread was to invite opinions about what would make that area better. What would make you go there? Spend money there? Forget about all the legal stuff and similar. If you could wave a magic wand - what would you like to see there? Robyn
Well Toney Sleiman owns the Landing, so you'll have to convince him to tear it down. If you want to know a little bit about what's going on, there is an ongoing feud between the city and the Landing. The city has a somewhat complicated contractual duty to provide a certain amount of dedicated parking for the Landing, which it has failed to do since 1987, and this contract was revisited when Sleiman was in the works to purchase the Landing from the Rouse company.
Sleiman is a tough cookie to deal with, though. It's a complicated situation, but Sleiman has developed pretty good plans for the place that would address exactly the problem you highlighted. The Landing is closed off from the street and is very uninviting. The city and Sleiman both want to see the Landing redesigned and opened up onto Laura Street (which is now being repaved and made pedestrian friendly). Some funds have been appropriated, but contracts have been ignored, someone has been tough to deal with, and the economy isn't exactly working for anyone.
The other major problem is a legislative problem in dealing with how events downtown are handled. One way streets were put in place just to bring people in quickly and expel them equally quickly, and laws currently deal with how the law enforcement handles guests at downtown events. When you leave a Jags game or any other major event downtown, streets are closed off and cars are forced to leave. A group who wants to stay downtown literally has to fight law enforcement to do so, and that really hurts downtown businesses from the Landing to Bay St establishments to La Cena (the best Italian restaurant in town by far) and on.
The city is currently looking at amending laws so that law enforcement isn't forced to cycle people in and out. The city is also in ongoing negotiations with Sleiman.
I've never been to a Jaguars game - but I have been to a Florida/Georgia game. And the traffic direction coming out of the game brought you right into downtown at about the Main Street Bridge. Are the Jaguars games different? Robyn
ditto everything jsimms said. It's almost like he reads metrojacksonville.com
I will be very happy the day the Landing gets dedicated ADJACENT parking and they cut that thing down the middle to open to the river. Then it will complement the Laura Street Trio plans that hopefully will have been completed by then, and we will have a nice little corridor of activity in downtown Jax. And I'll enjoy visiting when I'm not on my yacht (since I'm dreaming, might as well make it good)
Unless you have a really big handicap - there's a lot of decent parking within 3-4 blocks of the Landing. And if you have a big handicap - the kind where you have to unload a wheelchair or similar - there's some excellent handicap parking very close (we got to know those areas when my FIL was still alive and we went to concerts). I don't think parking is the problem (unless you're talking about getting 24/7 free parking). Robyn
NO, NO, NO.....don't tear down the Landing! I know that not everyone in Jax has a boat, but those of us that do really like tying up at the Landing and enjoying lunch at one of the restaurants, even at Hooters (and we are in our early 60's). We are not a "downtown" type couple, but definitely enjoy events that happen at the Landing. Downtown Jax will never be known as an "Entertainment Meka" like some other cities.
How many times a year do you go there? Would you pay $10 to park your boat? Robyn
KerryB is right, there are people who want to be on the Northbank living & playing but they are priced out. This thread has more to do with Jacksonville neglect of downtown(Northbank) then it does the Landing.
Well that should go to show the city planners & big developers that it simply doesn't work. They put the cart before the horse & thought they'd just go ahead & build a bunch of high end expensive projects, charge up the nose to live there & people would just come runnin'. I mean, who are those for exactly??? The rich have better things to do with their money, and you've completely priced out the eccentrics who would actually consider moving downtown with the shape that it's in currently.
Now you see all of these huge projects failing left & right. Like I said earlier, you can't just go from nothing to injecting unnatural artificial growth with giant projects. It's not the right way. You have to promote growth organically.
Riverside & Springfield did have some of that too. Springfield especially, but they weren't quite as ready & it ended up setting them back a bit I think. All the SRG stuff tried to go big with a lot of that forced growth & now you see they're basically bankrupt & a lot of those bigger projects they did/had plans for didn't pan out at all.
Thankfully the community over there is starting to grow organically again & do things the right way, attracting the right kind of people (not big developments/big investors trying to get rich & phoning it in from afar). If you'll notice, almost every successful business over there is local, does a great job & has a rapport with the community. That's exactly what they need. It's really what a lot of the country needs IMHO. Making neighborhoods into real neighborhoods again & keeping your dollars local instead of just throwing more money at the big guys & giant corporations. Some of that is OK, but too much is really a bad thing for everyone. Our cities used to be all of that, so I think we need to get some of that back everywhere & be conscious of it. But I digress...
Downtown needs the same type of growth as Riverside & Springfield is doing now. Promote it, don't force it. It'll happen, you just have to let it & get out of it's way.
Well I already spend money there when I take my boat downtown (where else do you dock downtown?). I also happen to enjoy Hooters , but not the food so much.
The plan that Sleiman has for the place (still on the drawing board) could not be better because it opens the Landing up to the street, expands the place, has a better, more inviting design, and incorporates a residential and office component. Some tenants that almost went in included Fuddruckers, which is fighting chapter 11 right now.
Some tenants I would like to see once the Landing is reconfigured into what it should and could be:
Hard Rock Cafe (not for me, but to draw tourists in and for the vibe) Borders (would love it if we could actually support a B&N, but a Borders is smaller and more realistic and is actually in talks with B&N to acquire B&N anyway) Legal Seafood McCormick & Schmicks Gordon Biersch Benihana Some cheaper chains like TGIF or Ruby Tuesday which used to be there Ben & Jerry's Rita's Ice A Tourist Info/Travel Place A Fudgeshop...thinking Peterbrooke Chocolatiere or Godiva Johnston and Murphy Urban Outfitters Body Shop Nine West or Aerosoles or The Walking Company A Sony Style or Samsung Store Wolf Camera a Levi's store Foot Locker Gap or Banana Republic And fill whatever in here
There also needs to be perhaps a Diner (24 hour) type place, and 2-3 clubs/bars that are open til 2 (there is already one called Maverick's in place that is very successful).
Regarding Jaguar game attendees, I'd rather see more venues built closer to the stadium, to cater to the after-game crowd. The parking issue is already addressed, since those folks are already parked. Seems as though there is some unused riverfront land close to the Maxwell House plant. It would still be a little bit of a walk, but nothing a trolley or shuttle can't resolve.
This has been discussed before. We have a long skinny central downtown area with the Stadium at one end - and the convention center area at the other end - and the FTU Center in the middle. Before the Super Bowl - there was some effort to make an entertainment center between the Stadium and about the Main Street Bridge area. The idea and what was built lasted for maybe a few months.
Maybe if we had another convention center (not a grand one - but an ok one) between the Stadium and the FTU Center - it might be easier to get a central area going).
And remind me - about how far is it from the Stadium to the Landing? My guess would be a couple of miles. Not easy walking distance. Robyn
Well that should go to show the city planners & big developers that it simply doesn't work. They put the cart before the horse & thought they'd just go ahead & build a bunch of high end expensive projects, charge up the nose to live there & people would just come runnin'. I mean, who are those for exactly??? The rich have better things to do with their money, and you've completely priced out the eccentrics who would actually consider moving downtown with the shape that it's in currently.
Strand and Peninsula are commercial successes. These are the new buildings that are "expensive." The rehabbed buildings are what ran into trouble (the Vestcor properties). Also, the city did give incentives, true, but it gave incentives to smaller developments downtown, as well as large. We also have a new, and much brighter regional planning director, Bill Killingsworth, who is from St. Petersburg, FL (a commercially successful small downtown). The only people pricing out the eccentrics downtown are actually the greedy (and dumb) small landowners who are extorting rent from people who express interest in opening up galleries are renovating space for loft studios. Even Chew, one of the most successful restaurants in town that wanted to expand space in a vacant space next door in the same building was priced out by the jerk owner.
Also, eccentrics have two extremely cheap places to choose from downtown, right now. The Metropolitan and Citilofts, both recent renovation projects that are successful. More of these will start to pop up, but these are the guys that need incentives because these are the smaller developers going for FHA funds and city funds for assistance since they don't have the money on their own and banks won't lend very much for such projects.
You have to promote growth organically.
Agreed. Starting to happen.
Riverside & Springfield did have some of that too.
They are all commercial successes. Nothing was too large. Villariva, which is now COA controlled is arguably the most popular condo building in Jax. The only project that took a while to get sold was 1661 Riverside, the developer of which lived down the street from me and passed away this year. Apparently the condos were nothing special, but the commercial space was leased up very quickly.
Thankfully the community over there is starting to grow organically again & do things the right way, attracting the right kind of people (not big developments/big investors trying to get rich & phoning it in from afar). If you'll notice, almost every successful business over there is local, does a great job & has a rapport with the community. That's exactly what they need. It's really what a lot of the country needs IMHO. Making neighborhoods into real neighborhoods again & keeping your dollars local instead of just throwing more money at the big guys & giant corporations. Some of that is OK, but too much is really a bad thing for everyone. Our cities used to be all of that, so I think we need to get some of that back everywhere & be conscious of it. But I digress...
Agreed, but the Landing will never be an "organic growth" spot. The Landing is a landmark. Everyone not from Atlanta asks me if I go to the Varsity just like everyone not from Jax asks me if I go the Landing. The Landing should and will eventually be in the mold of Baltimore Inner Harbor and cater to tourists and locals who want a quality chain dining/waterfront experience, as well as clubs.
Downtown needs the same type of growth as Riverside & Springfield is doing now. Promote it, don't force it. It'll happen, you just have to let it & get out of it's way.
Agreed, and you can see that starting to happen.
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(since I'm dreaming, might as well make it good)
, but not the food so much.
