Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
"The Core" is a new marketing plan by JEDC and DDA I think. It has been in effect for maybe half a year and is meant to include the whole core of Jax, especially downtown. I think it will be effective.
Well that should go to show the city planners & big developers that it simply doesn't work. They put the cart before the horse & thought they'd just go ahead & build a bunch of high end expensive projects, charge up the nose to live there & people would just come runnin'. I mean, who are those for exactly??? The rich have better things to do with their money, and you've completely priced out the eccentrics who would actually consider moving downtown with the shape that it's in currently.
Now you see all of these huge projects failing left & right. Like I said earlier, you can't just go from nothing to injecting unnatural artificial growth with giant projects. It's not the right way. You have to promote growth organically.
Riverside & Springfield did have some of that too. Springfield especially, but they weren't quite as ready & it ended up setting them back a bit I think. All the SRG stuff tried to go big with a lot of that forced growth & now you see they're basically bankrupt & a lot of those bigger projects they did/had plans for didn't pan out at all.
Thankfully the community over there is starting to grow organically again & do things the right way, attracting the right kind of people (not big developments/big investors trying to get rich & phoning it in from afar). If you'll notice, almost every successful business over there is local, does a great job & has a rapport with the community. That's exactly what they need. It's really what a lot of the country needs IMHO. Making neighborhoods into real neighborhoods again & keeping your dollars local instead of just throwing more money at the big guys & giant corporations. Some of that is OK, but too much is really a bad thing for everyone. Our cities used to be all of that, so I think we need to get some of that back everywhere & be conscious of it. But I digress...
Downtown needs the same type of growth as Riverside & Springfield is doing now. Promote it, don't force it. It'll happen, you just have to let it & get out of it's way.
What kind of housing would you have downtown and on the South Bank that you think would attract people who would want to live there? Type - style - price range? I think part of the problem turning these places into "neighborhoods" is - if I recall correctly - they weren't really residential areas to start with (like Riverside/Avondale - San Marco - Springfield - etc). Robyn
Well I already spend money there when I take my boat downtown (where else do you dock downtown?). I also happen to enjoy Hooters , but not the food so much.
The plan that Sleiman has for the place (still on the drawing board) could not be better because it opens the Landing up to the street, expands the place, has a better, more inviting design, and incorporates a residential and office component. Some tenants that almost went in included Fuddruckers, which is fighting chapter 11 right now.
Some tenants I would like to see once the Landing is reconfigured into what it should and could be:
Hard Rock Cafe (not for me, but to draw tourists in and for the vibe) Borders (would love it if we could actually support a B&N, but a Borders is smaller and more realistic and is actually in talks with B&N to acquire B&N anyway) Legal Seafood McCormick & Schmicks Gordon Biersch Benihana Some cheaper chains like TGIF or Ruby Tuesday which used to be there Ben & Jerry's Rita's Ice A Tourist Info/Travel Place A Fudgeshop...thinking Peterbrooke Chocolatiere or Godiva Johnston and Murphy Urban Outfitters Body Shop Nine West or Aerosoles or The Walking Company A Sony Style or Samsung Store Wolf Camera a Levi's store Foot Locker Gap or Banana Republic And fill whatever in here
There also needs to be perhaps a Diner (24 hour) type place, and 2-3 clubs/bars that are open til 2 (there is already one called Maverick's in place that is very successful).
Give it 10 years and you'll demand better beer than you find at Hooters .
I think you're dreaming with more than half the places on your wish list - thinking more Town Center in Boca than downtown Jax. FWIW - there is only one Legal Sea Foods in Florida - at the Town Center in Boca (there was another at City Place in WPB - but it closed).
And even with the lower end places - like The Gap (or even an Old Navy) - these places have to generate lots of dollars of sales per square foot to justify their existence. And how are you going to get people to go to a Gap downtown where there are lots of them all over town?
Perhaps I am dreaming - but I seem to recall that there was a Sharper Image at the Landing - at a time when the Landing location was the only location in town. And that place seemed to do ok - at least for a while (I guess that was when Sharper Image was "cool" - which is probably a pretty long time ago).
Another problem with your places is many are endangered species. Book stores - electronics stores. Camera stores. I just tried to buy a camera in a local store - and although the store carried the camera I wanted on line - it didn't carry any of the brand in its store. And I'm talking a common brand - Panasonic - and not a very high end camera. So I wound up buying the camera on Amazon. I would have paid more to buy locally - but I wouldn't pay more to buy on XYZ's website instead of Amazon (because Amazon is the best).
Perhaps we could save the Landing by having cruise ships dock in front of it . Robyn
...Really would love Peterbrooke's in the Landing. Considering it's a Jax landmark, there should be a showcase of things important to Jax. Maybe Three Sisters Chocolate, a Maxwell House shop, Bold City and Intuition Ale Works, Swisher Sweets, The Loop...I'm getting carried away but you get the point. BTW, when did Maverick's open back up?! I'm so behind...
Ask the local owners of these places (to the extent that they have places - is there such a thing as a Maxwell House shop??) if they'd open a place in the Landing. Most would probably laugh in your face - unless you waved guaranteed profit money/subsidies in their faces.
Quote:
...You don't think Jax Beach can rival this? In any case, I've enjoyed a night or two in the unofficially titled "Bay Street Entertainment District" but it's awfully easy to spend too much money doing that, haha. I've noticed that downtown vision is calling it "The Core."
There isn't much going on in downtown Jax Beach either. And the place is pretty seasonal. And the parking isn't great. Plus - the random DUI points are a problem. Robyn
This is a dream list Robyn; I know it is wishful thinking right now. I also happen to know exactly what it takes to pull in most of these retailers (real estate is kind of my thing after all). I would never say never, though. I am thinking along the lines of Baltimore Inner Harbor or Kansas City Power and Light District. Both of those two "entities" have a similar mix of retail in a similar setting.
What's more realistic for the short term is art gallery space (there now), farmer's market space (there on Fridays), a few touristy restaurants (American Cafe, Hooters, etc), and a few bars/clubs (Twisted just left, but I do believe Maverick's is still there).
Legal Seafood is usually a "downtown" establishment. If Jax really really does a good job picking the ball up and making downtown into something, I could see a Fogo de Chao there in the long long term. Fogo prefers downtown locations with high traffic and a steady stream of high income travelers and residents, and is often the "most successful" restaurant by gross revenues in the metros it locates in. Fire de Brazil is a little cheaper and could come sooner, though.
Also, book stores are dying a slow death, but big changes are coming. Borders is trying to acquire the larger B&N, and both are overextended in number of locations. Urban locations tend to do a lot better because for whatever reason people living in more urban environments frequent the stores more and spend more money on books. I'm at the Georgia Tech B&N (in an urban, walkable, mixed use environment surrounded by other stores and restaurants) at least once a week and I have probably spent a couple grand there over 4 years. Chamblin's is downtown and is doing really well, actually.
Give it 10 years and you'll demand better beer than you find at Hooters .
I have a restaurant within walking distance of my building that has 144 beers on tap. I have their "beer university" card and have tried over 50 of them. Plus I have been drinking beer far far longer than I should have None of those beers comes even close to my Bud Light I doubt my taste will change given I'm at the stage of my life where I'm supposed to like all of those overpriced European beers and microbrews and I don't. Besides, that's not why I go to Hooters, either
All valid points, but slightly off. There *will* be a new convention center on the site of the current Duval County Courthouse, but that won't be designed or built until at least a couple of years into the next mayorship. Landing is definitely not "easy" walking distance, but the city is working on securing the Shipyards for public use and making a riverfront park and extending the Riverwalk. This will make walking from the games to the Landing much easier and quite pleasant, but once again, years out (next mayorship or the next).
Also, the Entertainment District you speak of is the city's best nightlife district, still. The stretch of East Bay Street from Liberty to Ocean (and Forsyth one block north on the same stretch) is home to:
Ivy
Lit
Mark's
Northstar Substation
Dive Bar
TSI
Dos Gatos
Poppy Loves Smoke
(recently closed London Bridge...was never the best from what I heard)
and a pizza place open til 3
There is no other comparable nightlife district in N FL, and if you drive by on a Thursday-Saturday night, you will see limos, lines, and red carpets. People actually dress up (unlike the lame and trashy places like Plush and Ocean Club). Parking is currently free in the courthouse parking lot and believe it or not, people walk back and forth between the Landing and this area at night (I have done so twice before and it was fun, safe appearing, and pleasant). I have taken a few photos of the area at night if you look in the photo boards. You literally would not think you are in Jacksonville if you have ever driven by at night on a Friday or Saturday or even Wed./Thurs.
This is all organic growth heavily instigated by the son of a major downtown/Springfield landowner (Chris Hionedes) who moved away from Jax for a while, married, and moved back with full intention of "creating" big city nightlife downtown.
Do people come to these places in limos because: A) They want to drink a lot - don't want to get picked up for a DUI - and therefore pool money for a limo; B) Because they're celebrities; or C) Because they're rich?
BTW - if I remember correctly and have my family history right - the father of the fellow you mention used to own the Dolphin Depot out here in Jax Beach. My impression of him (and it's an impression I get only from the media - could be a wrong one) is he's one of these real estate types who acts like a big shot during good times - and goes Chapter 11/bankruptcy during bad times. A really minor league Donald Trump heads I win/tails you lose type. Hope the taxpayers haven't given him or his son any money to set this stuff up. Wonder if the father has his fingers in any of these pies? After all - business people need to get financing from somewhere. Where did the son get the money to do all this stuff? Robyn
Oh yea, and I don't think Ivy or Mark's allow smoking inside, so your nice clothes won't smell like a bowling alley. The beach crowd gets cranky when they're not allowed to wear baseball caps or Hurley shirts to the club/bar. Downtown caters to the more professional big-city crowd while the beach bars cater to underage drinkers, college students, and the never leave the beach...ever... crowd.
And I get cranky when I'm not allowed to smoke in a bar. FWIW - Brix has (or at least used to have) really good beers on tap. Next time you go there - ask to see their beer delivery room (where they keep the tap beers - and connect them to the taps). Robyn
Hmmmmm.....It's kind of a cat & mouse thing because on some nights the Landing will be alive and others it will be ghost-town dead. I'd say most weekends the Landing is bustling and anytime during the week there's an event at the Landing would be the best time to go.
I only have to assume it's a relatively late night crowd - doesn't get started until 8-9 - right? I've been there after shows on Saturdays about 6 or so and it's been dead. FWIW - on a festive night - I like to start drinking at about 5-6 - and dine at 8. Guess in JAX - people eat at 5-6 - and start drinking at 8 . Robyn
We do tie up there, but not nearly as much as some boaters do. The Landing is simply a good place for boaters to Party, at least during the summer months. Metro Park doesn't charge to tie up there. The downtown docks of St Augustine does and it's not very cheap (depending on time there). Would I pay $10 each time to tie up our boat there.....perhaps. But, the boaters who visit the Landing quite a bit would definitely be against a charge for docking.
$10 is a cheap parking space - for any kind of conveyance - in a downtown area on a night when things are going on. If most people who dock downtown won't pay $10 - why do we think we'll get anything better than Hooters at the Landing? (Nothing personal - just a general observation.).
And who's supposed to pay for the docks and associated costs if not the people who use them? Robyn
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
, but not the food so much.
. Robyn
