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I always find it amusing that people move to Miami and think it's some nice laid back place like portrayed in the "Golden Girls"! When ever I hear the teirm "third world" to describe Miami I'm thinking of xenophobic white Anglos who are shocked that Miami is a tri-lingual multi cultural city.
How can you compare JAX to Miami regarding crime? Miami's metro population in Dade county is 3 times larger in addition that Miami's urbanized area is half of that of JAX so you have an extremely densley compacted city/metro.
If you enjoy a "city" (and I use that term loosely) that is more like a sea of suburban sprawl with a downtown area that resembles that of Omaha instead than Jacksonville is for you.
I can't speak to the crime in central Miami; I have never lived there. But I can tell you that of all the cities I have visited, here and abroad, I find Miami to be the most uncivil. I don't mean to generalize but people there are just plain rude and uncouth. At least that has been my experience. Most third world cities would be offended to be compared with the city of Miami. For this reason on my trips to the Caribbean I try to avoid connecting through MIA.
I don't know how to explain it and I certainly don't attribute it to the Cuban element because Cubans I know are very courteous and hospitable (one on one) although anyone who says anything negative about Miami is "xenophobic."
Don't want to offend everyone but I have heard Miami called the "armpit" of Florida.
I always find it amusing that people move to Miami and think it's some nice laid back place like portrayed in the "Golden Girls"! When ever I hear the teirm "third world" to describe Miami I'm thinking of xenophobic white Anglos who are shocked that Miami is a tri-lingual multi cultural city.
How can you compare JAX to Miami regarding crime? Miami's metro population in Dade county is 3 times larger in addition that Miami's urbanized area is half of that of JAX so you have an extremely densley compacted city/metro.
If you enjoy a "city" (and I use that term loosely) that is more like a sea of suburban sprawl with a downtown area that resembles that of Omaha instead than Jacksonville is for you.
IMO ... Miami except for South Beach and exclusive neighborhoods like Star Island, Biscayne Bay, Indian Creek and Gables by the Sea is one giant third world cesspool. And unless your a professional athlete, Telemundo superstar, rapper or a drug lord your probably not going to be able to afford to reside in any nice area of Miami.
At least in Jax as spread out as it is, almost anyone can afford a decent home in a good safe area.
'' you have an extremely densley compacted city/metro.'' Your proud of this? Extremely densely compacted city/metro? Isn't that PC code for overcrowded ghetto/slums, usually associated with third world countries.
All I said was that JAX was a sea of suburban sprawl. How is that not true? I've been to JAX many times and it's sprawl is just as bad as Orlando's where I temporarily reside. As for my comments about your downtown I merely stated a fact that it is puny compared to other cities of similar population size.
As for density? Well that just happens to be my preference since i'm not fond of living in some suburb and have to drive several miles to get to a grocery store. To each his own right? Sorry but I could never live in Jax and I can barely stomach Orlando as it is even though I live 4 miles east of downtown.
All I said was that JAX was a sea of suburban sprawl. How is that not true? I've been to JAX many times and it's sprawl is just as bad as Orlando's where I temporarily reside. As for my comments about your downtown I merely stated a fact that it is puny compared to other cities of similar population size.
As for density? Well that just happens to be my preference since i'm not fond of living in some suburb and have to drive several miles to get to a grocery store. To each his own right? Sorry but I could never live in Jax and I can barely stomach Orlando as it is even though I live 4 miles east of downtown.
I have to agree that we do have a fair amount of sprawl and our downtown is certainly not downtown Miami or Disney for density. I grant you that, no argument from me. I only commented on the rudeness of Miami people (certainly not all). So I ask you, if you had to choose between living in a sea of suburban sprawl or a zoo which one would you choose? Sorry, but I could never live in Miami.
^ Rudeness usually comes with living in a big city and you certainly aren't going to find southern hospitality in Miami, that's for sure. I guess I'm indifferent to it since I hail from the NYC metro area. By the way I never insulted the personality of the people of JAX. I was being critical of the city itself and it's built pattern that's all. If you think Miami is a zoo than I choose to live in a zoo instead of perpetual blandness.
^ Rudeness usually comes with living in a big city and you certainly aren't going to find southern hospitality in Miami, that's for sure. I guess I'm indifferent to it since I hail from the NYC metro area. By the way I never insulted the personality of the people of JAX. I was being critical of the city itself and it's built pattern that's all. If you think Miami is a zoo than I choose to live in a zoo instead of perpetual blandness.
For your information I also lived for many years in NYC where I contended with big city rudeness in order to make enough money to live anywhere I chose. I chose NEFL because moving from one hostile city to another hostile city like Miami didn't make much sense to me. Obviously it did to you. When I tire of the blandness I can hop on a plane and be back in NYC in less than 2 hours.
By the way the character of any city is its people. If you feel insulted by my previous comments, so be it.
I don't feel insulted. I just find it bemusing that I was berating another forumer from Miami complaining about Miami and then the JAX crew attacks Miami and it's people when I did none of the sort regarding the people of Jax.
Note - when I talk about "Miami" - I am - unless otherwise stated - talking about Miami/Dade County - which is different than the City of Miami (the latter has demographics that are kind of like Detroit).
I lived in Miami from about 1971 through 1995 (1985-95 in the City of Miami - Coconut Grove) - and have lived in Ponte Vedra Beach since 1995. I go back to Miami at least once a year - and think I'm in a reasonable position to compare the 2 places.
First - I'll say that neither place today is my idea of paradise. And - that - when we moved here - one consideration was having 4 living elderly parents - 2 in Broward County - 2 in North Carolina. Since my husband and I are both eldest siblings - and thought we'd bear a disproportionate share of elder care - we didn't feel free to move 3000 miles away from our parents. We wound up halfway in between them.
Second - we are probably part of the 1% that the "occupy everything" people complain about. So we have lived in very nice places in both metro areas.
Regarding Miami - I used to think it was wonderful in the early years. It was a sleepy little southern town in the 70's. With beautiful surroundings and wonderful weather. Good job opportunities too (for me and my husband - both lawyers). Not much crime to speak of. Things started to morph in the 80's - with the drug scene. We weren't in the thick of it - but we weren't totally distant from it either. We knew lawyers who got involved with some unsavory people. At least one was killed - and a couple of lawyers we knew wound up in jail for things like money laundering. Went to a lot of parties where lots of people spent most of their time snorting coke.
In the meantime - the city and the metro area and the services (shopping - restaurants - etc.) expanded tremendously. But so did the traffic. Even in the early 90's - I used to quip that Miami had everything - but it took forever to get there. Now it may have more than everything - and you can't get there at all.
Crime also increased quite a bit. I had many friends who were robbed - assaulted in their driveways. Even a couple of federal judges who were my age.
Then there was the political corruption. Starting to get bad then. Frankly terrible now.
Anyway - we lived in south Dade - and Hurricane Andrew put a big dent in that area. Even when we moved here in 1995 - south Dade wasn't back to normal. Many upper middle class - and especially middle class - people our age who still had to work in Miami and couldn't face their decimated neighborhoods took their insurance money - and moved to places like Weston in Broward County (which hardly existed as a real place before Andrew).
By 1995 - we were sick of still living with the aftermath of Andrew. And we wanted to move from a condo to a house - but wouldn't think of living in a house in Miami because of the crime. So we moved here.
When we first moved here - I really hated it in terms of lifestyle except for the recreational stuff (for me - tennis and golf). No shopping - lousy restaurants. Today - there is middle of the road shopping and some ok restaurants here. It is pretty much like Miami here except for higher end shopping (Miami has expensive restaurants - but IMO they mostly serve mediocre food with a side of attitude - we spend a lot of money on travel and food - and Miami wouldn't be on our list of top 20 cities to visit in the US - we only go there to visit our accountant). Also - I like the weather in Miami better - I dislike the cool/cold weather here in the winter.
Overall - things are ok here. I would like to see improvements (I agree that downtown JAX sucks - but downtown Miami - although better - is not exactly wonderful either). But there are some positives - and no huge negatives. For example - we are now in our 60's - and the medical care here is excellent. When we lived in Miami - we used to get care at Jackson Memorial Hospital/UM. What person with any kind of money would do that now? Here - we have the Mayo Clinic 10 minutes away from us.
As for sprawl - anyone from Miami taking about sprawl in JAX is like the pot calling the kettle black. When we first moved to Miami - Dadeland was in the "middle of nowhere" and people said no one would ever go there. Now - all of SE Florida sprawls both north and south - and west to the edge of the Everglades. I'm surprised there are no new subdivisions in the ocean .
Miami has also gotten a lot more third worldish since the 70's (especially the City of Miami proper - because most parts of Miami/Dade County with any kind of money have incorporated to distance themselves from poor people). Not that there weren't always poor people there (my first job was at Greater Miami Legal Services in Liberty City). It's just that there seem to be a lot more poor people - and they seem to be poorer than poor people decades ago. And they all seem to fight more among themselves about getting a part of an increasingly smaller pie. The poor American black population - the poor Haitian black population - the poor Hispanic population - etc. Note that I have nothing against people on the basis of color or ethnic origin (and my husband and I both speak Spanish - so we never had any problems with the Hispanic population in Miami in general). OTOH - we tired of Miami when the media started to refer to us as the "non-black non-Hispanic" residents/voters.
Sitting here now - what disturbs me the most about Miami is how the "Miami Vice" crime has morphed into something much worse in the last 10-15 years. Miami is now the Medicare fraud capital of the US. It is also the capital of staged auto accidents (makes me really want to drive there ). And similar stuff. And the political corruption hasn't abated. I don't know why that is. But something is very very wrong with what is going on there. It is one thing for Dave Barry to write amusing columns about it - another thing to live in it.
And speaking of Dave Barry - I enjoy reading his columns - especially those about drivers in Miami. We were in Los Angeles in September - and - once again - found out that bad traffic doesn't mean that drivers have to drive like idiots or rude morons (the drivers in Los Angeles are amazingly polite).
Ten years ago - I might have been ready to move back to Miami. Today - I wouldn't think of it (not that we will necessarily stay here forever - but who knows). Robyn
I can't speak to the crime in central Miami; I have never lived there. But I can tell you that of all the cities I have visited, here and abroad, I find Miami to be the most uncivil. I don't mean to generalize but people there are just plain rude and uncouth. At least that has been my experience. Most third world cities would be offended to be compared with the city of Miami. For this reason on my trips to the Caribbean I try to avoid connecting through MIA.
I don't know how to explain it and I certainly don't attribute it to the Cuban element because Cubans I know are very courteous and hospitable (one on one) although anyone who says anything negative about Miami is "xenophobic."
Don't want to offend everyone but I have heard Miami called the "armpit" of Florida.
Miami seems like a very attractive city on many levels, but I am sure there are many ugly parts to it.
I like both Miami and Jacksonville. Each has their own unique aspects. Actually, other than the Town of Palm Beach and the Lake Buena Vista/I-Drive area, I like just about every town and city in Florida. I'm definitely a lover of almost all things Sunshine State.
Miami definitely has the world city vibe thing going on that Jacksonville doesn't have. And it has a few colder days in winter, definitely a plus in my book. But I have to give the edge to Jacksonville simply because I'm a fan of "under the radar" cities, cities that might not stand out to the rest of the country but have a lot of unexpected surprises. Since Miami is one of the most well-known cities in the US, you can't say it is one to be under the radar.
But one thing is for sure--give me either Miami or Jacksonville over New York City or Washington DC any day of the week!
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