WJCT First Coast Forum: Downtown Dilemma (Jacksonville, Springfield: for sale, apartments, lofts)

[JFman00]

http://www.wjct.org/mp3/fcf/downtowndilemma_022312.mp3

I heard some of this on the radio and was especially surprised at the comparison between Jax and Indianapolis. If Indy, a city basically in the middle of nowhere with not all that much special about it, can revitalize their downtown, why can't Jax?

Along with this, I'm considering buying a place downtown in the next couple months. For those that *do* think that change is possible: how long until Jax has a downtown it can be proud of and what makes you think that?

[abvavgjoe]

I'd love to see dramatic change in all the areas here that need improvement (Northside, Westside, downtown, Arlington, etc.. Realistically though, I'm sorry say probably at least 10 years because it's just so lame right now compared to other downtown areas of other major metros.

However, on the positive side, there is this:

http://jacksonville.com/business/201...nned-riverside

[fsu813]

Originally Posted by abvavgjoe

I'd love to see dramatic change in all the areas here that need improvement (Northside, Westside, downtown, Arlington, etc.. Realistically though, I'm sorry say probably at least 10 years because it's just so lame right now compared to other downtown areas of other major metros.

However, on the positive side, there is this:

New apartments, retail space planned for Riverside | jacksonville.com

If you look at the stats, crime-wise, the Northwestside, Westside, & Arlington have been on a serious negative slide the past ten years years, the past five years especially.

Downtown has actually improved. As has the Northside, mostly due to the neighborhood directly North of Downtown being much improved.

Great revitalization takes time. 10 years is a good goal. That said, there's a lot going on Downtown. If you don't know about, you should perk your ears up and find out. You're missing out on the fun.

[projectmaximus]

Originally Posted by JFman00

Along with this, I'm considering buying a place downtown in the next couple months. For those that *do* think that change is possible: how long until Jax has a downtown it can be proud of and what makes you think that?

Depends to what level we're talking about. Who knows...maybe 20 years? But who knows what will happen when you're looking that far out. As for how long til it becomes cool enough that I would live downtown? Maybe 5 years or less. Just as soon as the Laura Trio and/or old Library projects are completed. Cross your fingers for both to happen...

[fsu813]

Originally Posted by JFman00

http://www.wjct.org/mp3/fcf/downtowndilemma_022312.mp3

I heard some of this on the radio and was especially surprised at the comparison between Jax and Indianapolis. If Indy, a city basically in the middle of nowhere with not all that much special about it, can revitalize their downtown, why can't Jax?

Along with this, I'm considering buying a place downtown in the next couple months. For those that *do* think that change is possible: how long until Jax has a downtown it can be proud of and what makes you think that?

The show was enjoyable, but really just a beginners 101 discussion. The panelists, besides Richard Clark, are all FAR beyond that stage of the conversation. They're ready to discuss in-depth policy detail and are generally on the same page. It deserves an on-going series of televised disucssion and debates - the special was one of WJCT's most popular shows.

Yes, of course Jax can and will do it. Jax would comitting financial suicide to not develop it's urban core - it's where all the trends lay. We're late to the part by a couple decades, by hey, better late than never.





So, when you say you're thinking about buying a place "Downtown", do you mean Downtown proper, or the very general downtown area including Riverside, Springfield, & San Marco?

I'm sure you've done your homework, but there are relatively few properties for sale in Downtown proper. City Place, Berkman, Church Street Townhouses, The Pennisula, and the Berkman/Shipyards townhouses. That's about it. Of those, many people are bullish on City Place as it's virtually across the street from the new Court House. They're small, but affordable. Some people buy two units next to eachother and make a larger one. The Berkman and Pennisula are both very nice, the Berkman is more affordable generally. The Church Street Townhouses are pretty decent. Really, the Berkman/Shipyards townhouses may have the highest upside. If/when a convention center is built on soon-to-0be old courthouse site, and/or the Shipyards are finally developed, and/or the Berkman II is finally demo'd and redeveloped, these water-front townhouses are in a prime spot. If you expand to the surronding neighborhoods, then obviously your options go up by 10000%. If you're still looking for lofts, Riverside & Springfield have some pretty nice ones for sale.

[JFman00]

Downtown proper. I'd say where, but it's such a good deal, and essentially my dream place (though perhaps not in my dream city). I don't want other people getting the drop on it :-P

[bativac]

Originally Posted by fsu813

...Yes, of course Jax can and will do it. Jax would comitting financial suicide to not develop it's urban core - it's where all the trends lay. We're late to the part by a couple decades, by hey, better late than never.

This is where I disagree with fsu813 - I don't think it's anywhere definite that Jacksonville "can and will" develop the urban core. Jacksonville has a long, proud history of letting downtown and the surrounding areas go to pot. Even areas like Springfield redevelop in fits and starts while the surrounding area continues to decline.

There are definitely some things happening downtown - but a stroll thru most areas of downtown on any given night around 7 or 8 PM will reveal a largely vacant landscape of closed office buildings, deserted and crumbling historic structures, and vacant lots.

Just today, I read that a committee has decided to try to improve Hemming Plaza - sort of a central park in downtown Jax - by removing the tables and chairs, in an effort to combat the problem of homeless people congregating in the park. So we're removing amenities from a public area. That sounds like a backwards step to me.

Before you buy anything downtown, look back at the history of the downtown area, from the 70s to now. Consider the political climate of Jacksonville. Visit the area, several times, and hang out downtown on weeknights and weekend days, and make sure it's someplace you're willing to wait a decade to see if it turns around.

I hope it does. But hope in one hand and you-know-what in the other...

If it was me, I'd stick to Riverside.

[fsu813]

The 3 main areas surronding Downtown are more popular than they've been in 40 years, actually. Pretty much the opposite of "going to pot". They're following the same living/housing trends as the rest of the country (in-town neighborhoods have skyrocketed in popularity nationally, mostly due to their proxity, walkability & bikeability, density, & character.

Also, the areas surroding SPR have not continued to decline - they've drastically improved, crimewise at least (not aesthetically). Ask JSO why Zone 1 isn't as much of an issue anymore, and how their focus has shifted to the Northwest & Westside.

The article in the paper - it's just brain storming at this time, and removing tables & chairs is falling out of favor. Probably won't happen.

[JFman00]

Most optimistically, how long before there's something other than the skyway for transit in the urban core? I've seen documents drawing in street car lines, light rail and commuter rail, but is that all still just a pipe dream at this point? Also, how long before Jax has a downtown waterfront park à la Millennium Park in Chicago?

[fatmama69]

Jax is one big country town. Been here for 23 years and the only thing really going is bigger businesses. The leaders lack the ability to put jax in the race.. pitiful place.