Pros / Cons of Moving from UK to Jacksonville with 3 year old twins (Tampa: rent, health insurance)
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Our family (including 3 year old twins) may have an opportunity to move from London to the Jacksonville area. I do not expect to live in downtown Jacksonville but more likely in a surrounding gated community like St Johns which hopefully takes away the crime aspect. I really need advice on the area and living there to help me come to a decision on whether to make the move or not. I would appreciate help on the following:
1. How good are the schools compared to UK or USA average. I have heard the schools in some counties are grade A or top in Florida but what does that mean in comparison with the other states / UK? How do they compare am I risking my childs education / future with this move?
2. What communities such as st Johns wood/ Eagle landing etc would you recommend we look at considering I'm an avid golfer and I want the kids to be able to make friends and have families not all pensioners (no offence intended) around them?
3. How unbearable is the weather / humidity? I don't mind the heat but wanted to know if it means I will need to keep kids indoors at weekend and when they get older not be able to do bike rides with them because its to hot etc?
4. My wife comes from new Hampshire and those flies love my blood for some reason. Whats the situation like in the Jacksonville area?
5. Could you sum up basic living costs for say a 5 bed house and family of 4? (electricity bills given air con / food / community fees / property tax)
6. Finally any other Pro's / Cons I should consider
Last edited by andycfoster; 06-26-2012 at 08:30 AM..
Reason: layout fix
we moved to the Gulf coast 18 months ago from kent. cant comment about life in JAx but have heard the weather is a bit less brutal.,
for cost of living, you will obvioulsy find housing cheaper than the UK.
you can use the MLS to check house prices and property tax info
allow for more expensive home insurance
car insurance is also more - running less
power is usually all electric, our bills vary between low and high 100s depending if ac and pool heater running
phone/internet comparable
cell phone costs a lot higher
the biggest factor is health insurance...if you are on a company move make sure you get it.
are you looking to stay long term ? if so build in a green card application into your 'package'
lastly just a bit of advice, get a home with a pool. its a must here
I reply as a Brit who moved with his family to Sarsota in 1998 and then to St Augustine in 2010
Firstly NE Florida is very different from the west coast of Florida where the previous poster lives. It is much cheaper and younger here. We have nowhere near the number of snowbirds as the weather except the summer is much cooller ( one of the reasons we moved).
There are plenty of gated community in the St Johns County which are located in A rated school areas.
Gated communities do not remove the crime aspect location does.
1. How good are the schools compared to UK or USA average.
If you are here as we are the long term the comparison is irrelevant but if in the short term then there are two different types of schooling and the area of St Johns County compares well with where you now live
Grade A schools mean they are top in Florida but compared with the other states we are not as good as the Northern states or fee paying schools in the UK but as good as the UK public schools
2. I would look at Nocatee and here in the areas of St Augustine
3. Three hot humid months with a breeze if you live by the coast which is why I love St Aug as it is always cooler. You get use to the humidity as your blood thins and never keeps us in doors
Rest of the time great weather
4. My wife comes from new Hampshire and those flies love my blood for some reason. Whats the situation like in the Jacksonville area? The same just get DEET
5. Impossible to give electricity bills food community fees property tax I live in a brand new 4 bed house 2 miles from the ocean in St Augustine and we pay annaul $2400 taxes homeowners fees $800 elec (2000sq feet) $1500, food we eat well $300 a week and we are a family now of 4 with 28 and 24 year old
6. Finally any other Pro's / Cons I should consider
Yes life is an experience and living in the US or Fl would be an adventure for you and your family
Dont forget health insurance
If you want to talk with me pm and will send tel no
Our family (including 3 year old twins) may have an opportunity to move from London to the Jacksonville area. I do not expect to live in downtown Jacksonville but more likely in a surrounding gated community like St Johns which hopefully takes away the crime aspect. I really need advice on the area and living there to help me come to a decision on whether to make the move or not. I would appreciate help on the following: Most of the gated communities are pretty terrible compared to the non-gated communities. You can get a nicer home in much nicer non-gated communities.
1. How good are the schools compared to UK or USA average. I have heard the schools in some counties are grade A or top in Florida but what does that mean in comparison with the other states / UK? How do they compare am I risking my childs education / future with this move? The schools in Jacksonville are the worst in the state and tend to be some of the worst in the entire united states. Unlike most Floridians, I went to school in the UK. I have also been to public schools, private schools, and been homeschooled here in the US. The curriculum in the UK is far more advanced than ANYTHING you could find in Florida. You can not get your child even a moderately decent education in the public schools here. The private schools are rarely better save for a few of the really elite places. You are going to put your children at a severe disadvantage in life if they are forced to go to the schools here.
Most parents in Florida will admit that the schools are horrible failures, but they are never willing to admit that the schools they send their children to are bad. They play all these crazy mind games and tell themselves lies about how it's those other schools which are all bad, but not their child's school. Their child's school is perfect because they send their child to it. They just aren't willing to admit to themselves they are hurting their kids by sending them to prisons which fail to teach kids on even a basic level. They will do anything to deny that.
I would go so far as to say it is child abuse to send a child to the public schools here.
2. What communities such as st Johns wood/ Eagle landing etc would you recommend we look at considering I'm an avid golfer and I want the kids to be able to make friends and have families not all pensioners (no offence intended) around them?
3. How unbearable is the weather / humidity? I don't mind the heat but wanted to know if it means I will need to keep kids indoors at weekend and when they get older not be able to do bike rides with them because its to hot etc? It really depends on how you choose to react to the weather. When I moved from the UK to Tampa I was pretty shocked at the difference in weather. Jacksonville is not as hot as Tampa, but it'll probably be uncomfortable to you for a while. This'll sound strange, but I actualy recommend moving to a more southern part of Florida. You get more sun and heat, but those things tend to make people feel happier and healthier.
4. My wife comes from new Hampshire and those flies love my blood for some reason. Whats the situation like in the Jacksonville area? If you don't use bug repellent or use pest control on your yard, you'll get bit.
5. Could you sum up basic living costs for say a 5 bed house and family of 4? (electricity bills given air con / food / community fees / property tax)
6. Finally any other Pro's / Cons I should consider. The Jacksonville area tends to only have cons. I would advise you to avoiding coming here really. There are much nicer places to live and work in Florida and throughout the United States.
The schools in Jacksonville are the worst in the state and tend to be some of the worst in the entire united states. Unlike most Floridians, I went to school in the UK. I have also been to public schools, private schools, and been homeschooled here in the US. The curriculum in the UK is far more advanced than ANYTHING you could find in Florida. You can not get your child even a moderately decent education in the public schools here. The private schools are rarely better save for a few of the really elite places. You are going to put your children at a severe disadvantage in life if they are forced to go to the schools here.
Most parents in Florida will admit that the schools are horrible failures, but they are never willing to admit that the schools they send their children to are bad. They play all these crazy mind games and tell themselves lies about how it's those other schools which are all bad, but not their child's school. Their child's school is perfect because they send their child to it. They just aren't willing to admit to themselves they are hurting their kids by sending them to prisons which fail to teach kids on even a basic level. They will do anything to deny that.
I would go so far as to say it is child abuse to send a child to the public schools here
We all have our opinions and mine is that the above post is from someone whom I would ignore! My son and daughter were educated at a pivate school in the UK and came here to the US when they were 10 and 14 went through the public school system and graduated USF and one is a teacher the other in Govt service both well adjusted and happy to be here as US citizens. Their friends in the UK who went through the private system all graduated got no jobs and 75% of them are now overseas as they see no future in their homeland. Perhaps Tekka should go back to the UK and see how it really is now
Thanks for the advice please keep it coming it is very helpful as I like to get varied opinions. The one thing that I may not have been clear on is location. If we move the company that my wife will transfer with will be in a south jacksonville campus (I think 20 mins from St Johns area) but we would always look to live outside of the major city as we do in London. Hopefully get our current 1hr 15 min commute down.
Therefore from a school point of view its really around schools in the St Johns county area that we are intrested in rather than downtown jacksonville schools. This is my biggest decision as I want to ensure my kids get the schooling they deserve as they appear bright already (I know all parents say that )
I will need to quit my uk job and look for a new IT based job (possibly bank related) so hopefully you can reasure me that there are plenty of jobs in this area given I have 15+ years worth of experience with well known companies.
You suggested we should look for a property with a pool. Is that cheaper in the long run than putting one in later. No idea how much a covered/netted pool would cost to install. I'm concious twins would only be 3 and having a pool so close at that age brings risks but also I see the beauty of a pool to dip in after work in the evening. Decisions eh? We were budgeting around the 250,000 mark for a 4/5 bed house with 3 bathrooms on around 1/4 acre plot. Could we get a pool for this much in nice areas of St Johns county or would we need to up our budget? I think we would probably rent for 6 months first anyway.
Glad to hear only 3 months of super heat and then 9 months of heat and that electricty running the air con over the year is around $1500 that is very helpful for my spreadsheet costings.
Can anyone help on ball park figures for House Insurance for property of above size / car insurance for 2 cars (do you ensure by car / driver in US or does a policy cover all cars you own?)
Thanks for Health care reminder but that should come via my wifes work and they would support me with a working visa I think while I get a green card that hopefully with an american wife and 2 american children will be slightly easier. Medical Plans are one area as a Brit thats so hard to get your head round. I see examples of $500 a month for familiy & dental with $2000 deductables and $15000 limits. This area is one big mindfield to budget. I have no idea what a good plan should cost or what to budget against.
Again thanks for all your help and as a golfer-holic off a handicap of 6 I will be looking for friends / members at SAWGRASS for the odd round another big draw to the area but don't tell the wife that. I'm sure membership there will be out of my budget but does St Johns area have membership courses that have competions as having always been a member of a golf club I must keep that - just not a pay and play golfer like to get a group of buddies to play week in week out with but not at midday I suspect :-)
Last edited by andycfoster; 06-28-2012 at 10:21 AM..
Re TPC Sawgrass - My husband and I have what is called a Valley Membership at the TPC Sawgrass (there are 2 courses at the TPC - the Stadium Course and the Valley Course). For $2500/year (which covers the whole family) - you can play the Valley Course for cart fees only ($20 for 9 holes - $30 for 18). You can also play the Stadium Course for discounted fees (which vary a lot according to the season). You also get 20% off food and beverage - purchases at the pro shop - and lessons/clinics. Children can walk for free (you can too for that matter if I recall correctly - my husband and I are too old to walk). There is no initiation fee - and no monthly food/beverage minimums. Overall - I think it's an excellent deal - and perhaps within your budget.
If you have any more questions about the TPC - let me know. Robyn
Be careful with the health insurance stuff if your whole family isn't covered under a really good employer policy. Good health insurance here is expensive. And a lot of dental coverage - even under good insurance policies - is frequently very basic. I don't know what dental things are covered in the UK - but things like braces for your kids can cost more than you think (and may not be covered). If you have the details of some specific plans with some specific numbers - post them and we'll let you know what we think. Also note that although we have some excellent medical facilities here (like the Mayo Clinic and Wolfson Chlildren's Hospital) - they are often not included in various health insurance networks. Robyn
Some of your questions I will defer to those who can give a good comparison between UK and US based on their experience, but I have a few thoughts.
First, regarding the bugs, I have live in New Hampshire (and Maine) and in Florida. Florida has more bugs, but most of them don't bite. In New Hampshire, they all bite (except for house flies). I have found it easier in Florida than New Hampshire.
Regarding education, I grew up in Maine and went to a Catholic High School there. If you were moving there, I would say that even the public schools are great. But Florida schools are at the bottom of the list in the US. My wife and I have a 7 month old and we have discussed moving to Maine just for that reason, and also for the cultural environment, which is more civil in Maine. However, I have a very good job here which would be almost impossible to replace in Maine, and living in St. John's County, it is better than Jacksonville, so we may end up staying. In addition, the private schools here are very good, and we will likely either go that route or home school. One thought regarding Jacksonville, though. They have magnet schools, which are for the top students, and these are excellent, very highly rated nationally. I have friends who have had their kids in those schools, and I can see the difference in both their level of intelligence and maturity.
Regarding cost of a home, right now is an excellent time to buy as the prices and interest rates are both low. That said, for $250k, you can buy a 4 or 5 bedroom home, but you will not be able to buy that in the higher end neighborhoods. ONe thing to think about with your desire to live in a golf course area. World Golf Village has homes priced in your range and has 2 golf courses as well, designed by both Jack Nicklaus and Arnold Palmer.
Regarding the Jacksonville area vs other parts of Florida. Jacksonville is the only metropolitan area in the state that does not deal with tourists. When I moved here years ago, I had travelled to both the Orlando and Tampa area in addition to Jacksonville. What I discovered was that I hated dealing with the tourist traffic. It is unpredictable, and they move at a different pace than the locals (as well they should). Jacksonville is a traditional city, and I like that. This is very subjective, so the next person might think differently.
One more thing not mentioned here. I have found that Jacksonville has very good medical facilities, and that tends to fly below the radar. We have a Mayo Clinic, several hospitals including a hospital (Shands) tied to the University of Florida, and some doctor groups that are very highly regarded. For example, Heekin Orthopedics, I am told, is one of the best in the country. Both myself and my wife have used them, and the care we have received has done nothing to change our view of that. We have 2 children's hospitals, Wolfsons and Nemours (funded through the Duponts), and a group of eye doctors that are highly regarded (although they are all nearing retirement).
Some of your questions I will defer to those who can give a good comparison between UK and US based on their experience, but I have a few thoughts.
First, regarding the bugs, I have live in New Hampshire (and Maine) and in Florida. Florida has more bugs, but most of them don't bite. In New Hampshire, they all bite (except for house flies). I have found it easier in Florida than New Hampshire.
Regarding education, I grew up in Maine and went to a Catholic High School there. If you were moving there, I would say that even the public schools are great. But Florida schools are at the bottom of the list in the US. My wife and I have a 7 month old and we have discussed moving to Maine just for that reason, and also for the cultural environment, which is more civil in Maine. However, I have a very good job here which would be almost impossible to replace in Maine, and living in St. John's County, it is better than Jacksonville, so we may end up staying. In addition, the private schools here are very good, and we will likely either go that route or home school. One thought regarding Jacksonville, though. They have magnet schools, which are for the top students, and these are excellent, very highly rated nationally. I have friends who have had their kids in those schools, and I can see the difference in both their level of intelligence and maturity.
Regarding cost of a home, right now is an excellent time to buy as the prices and interest rates are both low. That said, for $250k, you can buy a 4 or 5 bedroom home, but you will not be able to buy that in the higher end neighborhoods. ONe thing to think about with your desire to live in a golf course area. World Golf Village has homes priced in your range and has 2 golf courses as well, designed by both Jack Nicklaus and Arnold Palmer.
Regarding the Jacksonville area vs other parts of Florida. Jacksonville is the only metropolitan area in the state that does not deal with tourists. When I moved here years ago, I had travelled to both the Orlando and Tampa area in addition to Jacksonville. What I discovered was that I hated dealing with the tourist traffic. It is unpredictable, and they move at a different pace than the locals (as well they should). Jacksonville is a traditional city, and I like that. This is very subjective, so the next person might think differently.
One more thing not mentioned here. I have found that Jacksonville has very good medical facilities, and that tends to fly below the radar. We have a Mayo Clinic, several hospitals including a hospital (Shands) tied to the University of Florida, and some doctor groups that are very highly regarded. For example, Heekin Orthopedics, I am told, is one of the best in the country. Both myself and my wife have used them, and the care we have received has done nothing to change our view of that. We have 2 children's hospitals, Wolfsons and Nemours (funded through the Duponts), and a group of eye doctors that are highly regarded (although they are all nearing retirement).
I wish you the best.
I agree totally with the above post except for the part highlighted in red. One course (The King & the Bear) was designed by Arnold Palmer and Jack Nicklaus and the other (older) course (The Slammer & the Squire) was designed by Sam Snead and Gene Sarazen. But other than that the above post is spot on.
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They just aren't willing to admit to themselves they are hurting their kids by sending them to prisons which fail to teach kids on even a basic level. They will do anything to deny that.
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