Sales Tax Vote In St. Johns County Tuesday (Tallahassee, Palm Valley: oceanfront, rentals)

[snuffybear]

Originally Posted by Robyn55

I am kind of surprised that you're not familiar with this stuff these days. OTOH - it's not really an issue at the pre-college level for the most part - where school attendance is pretty much dictated by where you live. Robyn

See thereyago. That is condescending.

I am aware of that -who said I wasn't?

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by snuffybear

See thereyago. That is condescending.

I am aware of that -who said I wasn't?

You did:

It is NOT race per se (as a certain member here constantly suggests); and in fact some of the highest rated schools are diverse (think magnet schools like Stanton/Paxon or some of the highly rated public schools in CA or VA or NJ with many Asians).

Robyn

[JBtwinz]

Looks like the growth is going to continue, about now would be a good time for a game plan from the likes of local government.

St. Johns County among fastest growing nationally, leaders struggle to keep up with growth | News - Home

Nassau County is not to far behind and nothing is being addressed at local government level here.

[Florida2014]

Originally Posted by JBtwinz

Looks like the growth is going to continue, about now would be a good time for a game plan from the likes of local government.

St. Johns County among fastest growing nationally, leaders struggle to keep up with growth | News - Home

Nassau County is not to far behind and nothing is being addressed at local government level here.

This doesn't surprise me, I'd have figured we were in the top 5 for as much building as I've seen in the two years we've been here. "Explosive" doesn't really quite summarize the growth here and with ample open space still available I expect the growth will continue for many years to come.

In terms of roads, Race Track Road leading to Philips Highway should be priority #1, especially once 9B is completed and more traffic flows into that area and all of the new developments (Celestina, Bartram, etc.) are totally built out. I keep hearing the builders have agreed to subsidize expansion of that stretch of road but haven't seen or heard anything from the county.

And selfishly, I sure wish there was a better/quicker way over to Ponte Vedra Beach but I know that will never happen.

[snuffybear]

Can someone explain the incentives for those on St. Johns County who approve all the growth?

I don't like to see the houses built 2 ft from one another with little room for nice trees and landscaping. New housing is fine but when it is SO obvious that the developers are cramming them in to maximize profit -- and those neighborhoods will forever be that way -- it's disconcerting.

Also, there is resistance by a Palm Valley group regarding excessive development along A1A across from the ocean.

The developers seem to have too much power. Since we elect the ones in power, can someone clarify what positions/people in St. Johns County are approving all this development?

Keep comments productive and not personal please.

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by snuffybear

Can someone explain the incentives for those on St. Johns County who approve all the growth?

I don't like to see the houses built 2 ft from one another with little room for nice trees and landscaping. New housing is fine but when it is SO obvious that the developers are cramming them in to maximize profit -- and those neighborhoods will forever be that way -- it's disconcerting.

Also, there is resistance by a Palm Valley group regarding excessive development along A1A across from the ocean.

The developers seem to have too much power. Since we elect the ones in power, can someone clarify what positions/people in St. Johns County are approving all this development?

Keep comments productive and not personal please.

County commissioners are basically where the buck stops when it comes to most things (except environmental permits). And they are elected. Not too many people are interested in contributing 10 cents to their elections (or often even voting). Except for people who can profit from what they do. A lot of whom are developers - real estate agents and similar. And look how easily people cede control of things to these people. This recent sales tax increase was orchestrated and sold by these developer and real estate interests through a slick PAC-financed advertising campaign (with opponents having pretty much no voice at all due to a lack of financing). How many postcards did you people get from this PAC? If I got one - I got fifty. Does anyone think the people who financed this PAC were motivated by the interests of current residents? I sure don't.

Note that what you're seeing is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of developments that were approved years ago - but still haven't been built.

On my part - I think there is a place for all kinds of housing - including "zero lot line" housing. There's actually an expensive part of Marsh Landing like that - and it is fairly attractive for the most part. Because the houses meet certain ARB standards which can be expensive to comply with (I wish more houses there were built sturdier - out of block - not stick - but that is an owner's maintenance problem - not an issue of aesthetics).

So the issue isn't "zero lot line" - it's putting up a lot of houses that are basically uninteresting "cookie cutter" at best - or ugly at worst. Houses that are often built in the cheapest possible way. When I drive past the new development on A1A just south of the JTB interchange - I just shake my head. Note that my father - a retired home builder - built houses like this (although the lots were larger). But that was a long time ago - and they cost < $20,000. I can't imagine paying mid-6 figures for a house like this - especially not in this metro area.

FWIW - I don't think it's a good idea to put trees in side-setback areas unless you're talking about a ton of room. Because they can act as lightning rods - fall on your house if there's a rain/wind event - etc. You also have to keep utility easements in mind. The block I live on has minimum 10' side-setbacks (for a total of 20'). And we fought our ARB (and won) when we built our house so we didn't have to plant any trees there - or have much in the way of windows on the side of the house either (who wants rooms with views of your or your neighbor's A/C equipment or similar?).

I applaud the Palm Valley group (in principle - although I might change my mind depending on the particulars). Does it have a website (if so - could you give us a link)? What else is it doing?

Like I have said before - when I have tried to rally neighbors to fight things in the past - about the only support I have gotten was signatures on petitions by going door to door (kind of worthless). The vast majority of people wouldn't even take a few hours to show up at a BCC meeting to object to a zoning variance or similar. Nor would they pay 10 cents to hire a lawyer or even an expert witness when it came to things like hearings in front of various environmental agencies when developers applied for the often "umpteen" permits they need to do many projects here.

I think if you (or anyone else here) subscribed to the email notification lists of the various environmental agencies that are involved in most of these developments (like the DEP - the SJRWMD - and the ACE) - you'd be amazed how many permit hoops developers have to jump through (and how many applications there are!). Still - if no one takes the time or the money to try to throw a little "sand in the gears" when it comes to permit applications - most of the applications will be granted. I remember when I wanted to file my first objection WRT a local project. And I spoke with the lawyer for the involved agency. And I asked why developer X always seemed to get his applications granted. And the answer was - BECAUSE NO ONE HAS EVER OBJECTED BEFORE. That's a pretty sobering thought.

These days - when I want to get involved in an issue - it is pretty much a DIY project. Last one was last year. Spent maybe 50 hours on it - and the proposal (a pretty small one) seems to have been abandoned. Don't know why. Except possibly that since only one lot was involved - the "developer" didn't care to spend the money to hire a lawyer to go up against a lawyer who was basically working for free. Robyn

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by JBtwinz

Looks like the growth is going to continue, about now would be a good time for a game plan from the likes of local government.

St. Johns County among fastest growing nationally, leaders struggle to keep up with growth | News - Home

Nassau County is not to far behind and nothing is being addressed at local government level here.

Perhaps this will in part be a self-correcting problem - at least in the next 10 years (not too worried after that because I will be pretty old by then). For a variety of reasons. Like interest rates might go up and we'll have another housing bust. Or so many kids will be going to schools in trailers that the schools no longer seem that attractive. Or enough people decide that the increasingly ridiculous commuting times to certain parts of SJC just isn't worth it. Or maybe taxes will go up a lot. Or maybe Nocatee will get low income housing <LOL> (it seems to be part of the PUD based on a couple of older articles - although I don't know exactly where). Or maybe things will improve in Duval County (not holding my breath on that one).

To the extent that it isn't self-correcting - I doubt our local government will do squat (except perhaps do things to make matters worse). I think we'll look like Broward County in perhaps 30 years - but I will almost certainly be cold in my grave by then. Robyn

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by Florida2014

This doesn't surprise me, I'd have figured we were in the top 5 for as much building as I've seen in the two years we've been here. "Explosive" doesn't really quite summarize the growth here and with ample open space still available I expect the growth will continue for many years to come.

In terms of roads, Race Track Road leading to Philips Highway should be priority #1, especially once 9B is completed and more traffic flows into that area and all of the new developments (Celestina, Bartram, etc.) are totally built out. I keep hearing the builders have agreed to subsidize expansion of that stretch of road but haven't seen or heard anything from the county.

And selfishly, I sure wish there was a better/quicker way over to Ponte Vedra Beach but I know that will never happen.

Most people would like to see better roads or similar in their areas. Unfortunately - there are almost always obstacles. Like I can appreciate the need for more sidewalks in south Ponte Vedra Beach - but most property owners aren't willing to cede the few feet of land at the front of their properties (without expensive condemnation proceedings). There is very little in terms of what I'd call "community spirit".

FWIW - if you did indeed come to Florida in 2014 - you missed 2 of our biggest heroes in the metro area when it came to improving our roads (and similar). Representative Dan Mica (based in the Orlando metro area - who was my congresscritter until a recent redistricting - I live in an area that has been subject to redistricting a lot - can't remember all the changes) - who was the chairperson of the House transportation committee for a long time. He was responsible for a lot of the 295/9A/9B stuff. Also the late Tillie Fowler (also my congresscritter at one time IIRC) - who brought us money for things like the new Palm Valley Bridge (which opened in 2002). You can't imagine what the old Palm Valley bridge looked like. A pretty ratty 2 lane drawbridge. There's a road on the west side of the ICW that is called "Clatter Bridge Road" - because of the sounds your car made when you crossed over the old bridge.

A lot of these transportation projects are funded on the federal and state levels. Not too many on the county level - especially the big ones (and almost all of them are big ones). Robyn

[snuffybear]

http://palmvalleycommunity.org/2015/...alm-valley-rd/


Can't find the info on the opposition of A1A development, maybe it's a different group?

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by snuffybear

http://palmvalleycommunity.org/2015/...alm-valley-rd/

Can't find the info on the opposition of A1A development, maybe it's a different group?

That project seems to be a senior rental independent living facility. There are very few of those in the metro area (and none here in PVB). Wonder what the objections are? These people won't have kids in school . Also - considering the average head of household here - well for a fair number it would be nice to have a place where older parents who need a little help can move if they want to downsize and move into the area.

My father lives in a similar type place in the Southside area. And - based on his place - I'd say the average age of residents in a place like this would be early-mid-80's (although age range would probably be mid-70's to 90+).

Note that not everyone likes CCRCs (like Vicar's Landing in Sawgrass). I am one of those people. And that kind of place certainly didn't make any financial sense for my father when he moved here (he was close to 90).

Assuming the place is "done right" - my inclination is "why not"? Robyn