04-17-2010, 09:09 PM
Location: USA
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To the OP, age doesn't matter with 'being stupid.' The problem you speak of is a problem in all 'retirement' states. Our housing hasn't gotten as cheap as some of your areas because people keep moving to AZ for some reason. From all over do they come. Even droves of Canadians are coming....
04-18-2010, 11:04 AM
Location: NE Florida
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I don't think young people today are any more stupid than the old farts (the OP excepted of course) that couldn't wait to buy over-priced houses down here 3 or 4 years ago, bigger houses than they could ever need or afford, some standing in line at model homes to plunk down $1000 holding deposits with zero down mortgages, or even committing over the phone without even seeing the actual house, and now ending up upside down in foreclosure, or wondering how they are ever going to afford the mortgage, insurance and utility bills and wondering how the hell this ever happened to them when the old farts were the ones that got us into this mess in the first place.
No, the young people are no more stupid. In fact they are alot wiser today.
Last edited by cricketfan; 04-18-2010 at 11:29 AM ..
04-18-2010, 03:12 PM
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
JagFan27
I'm not sure if I grasp what you are talking about, but I graduated from college in 1976 (education degree) from a university in Indiana. I moved to Phoenix, AZ in 1979 with no job. I had a job within a day of arriving in Phoenix.
There are times when the job market's hot - and times when it's not. We are now in the latter. You were moving from one hot growth area to another when I suspect demand exceeded supply. These days - I certainly wouldn't move here without a job offer if I were a teacher. Probably wouldn't move to Las Vegas or Phoenix either (don't know anything about Dallas). Another complicating factor here is that even if you could get a job teaching in Duval County (I think most of St. Johns County is impossible) - you'd probably wind up in a pretty awful school (an unfortunate fact of teaching life is that the newest and frequently worst teachers wind up in the worst schools where the students need the most help). Robyn
04-18-2010, 03:37 PM
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
investorscooter
Being at the tail end of BBoomership, I don't pretend to understand Gen Xers or Gen Y/Millenials. I do know that they think and behave differently, though, and that they probably have the optimism of youth and are still idealistic, to boot. I can remember being somewhat like that - once. The three young adult children that I have will not hear me discourage them from trying anything at least once. Especially in this economy, which will beat them down soon enough.
There was an article in our local paper today (it was an AP article - so it's not on the local website). Called "Grown Up and More Dependent Than Ever". The gist is that kids in their 20's now live with their folks in huge numbers - take large amounts from them to live on - and that - with ObamaCare for "kids" up to age 26 on their parents' health insurance policies - they will be become more dependent than ever. If 60 is the new 50 - then 25 is the new 15.
If your kids are giving a go of it on their own - then good for them. The time to try new things is when you're young - unmarried (or with a working spouse/partner to help you out) - without kids - and not used to any degree of luxury in your life. If you flop - it's easy to change course. My husband and I both opened our own law offices when we were in our 20's - early 30's. First he supported me in my effort - then I supported him. Worked out fine.
I think with regard to your kind of situation (not your specific situation) that I object to parents treating their kids like the ones mentioned in the article. There are some people in my family my age who are like that. Subsidizing their kids to the tune of 5 figures a year so little precious never has to attend the school of hard knocks (and I'm not talking about sending kids to school - I'm talking about subsidizing them when they're out of school). Are you subsidizing your kids - or are they doing things on their own? Robyn
P.S. In case you don't remember the old saying - if you're not liberal when you're young - you don't have a heart. And if you're not conservative when you're old - you don't have a brain.
04-18-2010, 03:38 PM
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Magnolia Bloom
Ditto. 55YO here and I'm moving WO a job and two minor children. Not sure what that makes me..... a stupid old fart?! LOL!
What kind of job will you be looking for? Robyn
04-18-2010, 03:41 PM
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
shiphead
To the OP, age doesn't matter with 'being stupid.' The problem you speak of is a problem in all 'retirement' states. Our housing hasn't gotten as cheap as some of your areas because people keep moving to AZ for some reason. From all over do they come. Even droves of Canadians are coming....
But your percentage declines are as bad (or worse) than ours in Florida (they're both big states - and local markets within the states vary). I have a brother in Scottsdale - and his house is probably worth about 40% less than it was at the peak of the market. Robyn
P.S. Not much in the way of Cuban food here in NE Florida.
04-18-2010, 03:42 PM
Location: southern california
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probably both are true. it is for me. but if you point it out point #1 those on CDF will be eager to point out #2.
04-18-2010, 04:06 PM
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
cricketfan
I don't think young people today are any more stupid than the old farts (the OP excepted of course) that couldn't wait to buy over-priced houses down here 3 or 4 years ago, bigger houses than they could ever need or afford, some standing in line at model homes to plunk down $1000 holding deposits with zero down mortgages, or even committing over the phone without even seeing the actual house, and now ending up upside down in foreclosure, or wondering how they are ever going to afford the mortgage, insurance and utility bills and wondering how the hell this ever happened to them when the old farts were the ones that got us into this mess in the first place.
No, the young people are no more stupid. In fact they are alot wiser today.
I think my original emphasis was on jobs - but you're right that a lot of older people did an awful lot of stupid things. I hear about this every day because my 91 year old father lives in a senior community (average age over 80) near Southside Blvd. When he moved here in 2006 - the place had a long waiting list. Now it is probably 1/3 vacant. The old people let their kids/brokers manage their money - put 80% of it in stocks (of course they had to pay high dividends - so they were mostly financial stocks
) - etc. A lot of residents have had to move to cheaper places - or move in with their kids. And a lot who have to sell their houses to move into a place like this can't sell at a price they consider reasonable (they think that real estate values can never go down).
There is one bright side for younger people. When you're just starting out - and your first life experience is with a terrible recession - you tend to learn some important life lessons (my husband and I were lucky to start out our adult lives shortly before the '73-'74 recession - which was every bit as bad as this one). Robyn
P.S. Disclaimer - I do manage my father's money - but I have been doing fixed income investing for over 30 years. And the only bright side of my father losing his wife of 62 years - my mother - in 2005 was that he sold his house in south Florida at the top of the market - put a lot of money in the bank - and then rented his place here.
P.P.S. The people I hate the worst are the people who are walking away from their obligations - especially mortgages - even when they have the ability to pay them. Have a couple of people in my family like that - and won't talk to them again. They're deadbeats IMO. Have even less regard for corporate type entities that are doing the same thing. And this is something new in our society IMO. People just defaulting on their debts because they feel like doing it - because it's convenient. Not a good turn of events IMO.
04-18-2010, 04:32 PM
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Robyn, you are absolutely spot on regarding people walking away from their debts. This will come back to haunt us in the years ahead. When people no longer care about their credit ratings, then the government will come up with programs to protect them or to bail them out. This is in large part why I am not a liberal in my political views and more libertarian in my social views. The "system" is encouraging irresponsibility and is making people who made dumb decisions into "victims". Well, like alcohol and drugs, it is a self-inflicted wound and in this case a financial one. We are in for some tough times for years ahead because of irresponsible people making bad choices. I guess what we all want is for someone else to pay our bills. I'm still waiting on that person to show up. So far, no luck.
04-18-2010, 04:55 PM
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It is not a question about people not caring about their credit rating. It is question of whether paying a mortgage on a depreciating underwater property is financially a good idea. And for many people, walking away is simply in their best financial interest. Corporations and investments groups do this routinely. It is no different for individuals. I don't think it is immoral or wrong.
See
Lowenstein: Yes you can walk away from your mortgage Video
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Occupied housing units (%)
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Air pollution - Air Quality Index (AQI)
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1996 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Clinton)
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2000 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Gore)
2000 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Republican Party (Bush)
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Urban houses (%)
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Geographical mobility - Same house 1 year ago (%)
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Industry diversity
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People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)
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) - etc. A lot of residents have had to move to cheaper places - or move in with their kids. And a lot who have to sell their houses to move into a place like this can't sell at a price they consider reasonable (they think that real estate values can never go down).
