Am I An Old Fart - Or Are Young People Stupid - Or Both (Jacksonville: apartment, for rent)

[James420]

My family and I are looking to relocate to the Julington Creek area this Summer. I've been looking for jobs around Jacksonville and St Augustine. I'm hoping to get into JAX PORT as a pipefitter or plumber. I'm a journeyman plumber by trade and I started welding about four years ago. I won't move without a job and I can't see someone renting me a house without a job. I thought being a plumber, finding a job would be easy, not so. We still plan on moving down from Delaware soon but finding a job has been harder than I thought.

[Deef1]

Originally Posted by Robyn55

OK - I've been here on this forum for a while now. And there are so many messages about people moving to NE Florida without knowing anything about it - what it has to offer - what it doesn't have to offer - without even having a job or having interviewed for a job! Trying to find a place - and perhaps spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on it - in a week or two.

Drives me nuts. I got out of school in the early 70's - a little before the '73-'74 recession. And would never in a million years think of moving to a new place - even as a young single person - without having a job (or - at a bare minimum - excellent prospects). I did have a job when I moved to Miami in 1971. First the job - then a modest rental (albeit in a nice neighborhood - real estate was a lot cheaper then) - which I could easily afford.

The way I see things now. We are still in pretty bad shape job-wise. We have always been a low income area compared to a lot of Florida - and a lot of the rest of the country. But now a primary area of decent jobs for hard-working but relatively uneducated people - i.e., construction - is gone. Poof. And - with it - a lot of jobs that rely on people having money to spend. The unemployment rate overall is over 10% - and - in the worst areas - probably well over 20%. And that doesn't count underemployment. Are people smoking something when they think this is a great place to come to work (especially if they just come here and try to "wing it")? (We have lots of opportunities in areas like health care - but - in general - the job situation here isn't good - and there is no way IMO that a health care professional should move to a totally new place - and deal with issues like licensing without having at least some type of job offer in hand.)

And then there are all the inquiries about neighborhoods and housing. Got news for you newcomers. The average price of a house when we moved to the JAX metro area in 1995 was under $100k. And - unless this job market starts to boil soon - it may get back to that point IMO. And those big areas like Nocatee. We have hundreds of thousands of acres of pine lands in St. Johns County - where Nocatee houses can be duplicated ad nauseum. I'd never spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a house like that. Because - 10 years from now - there'll be a newer house 5 miles away - and no one will want yours.

And don't feel so smug about places like Riverside either. Yup - there are some nice houses there - but walk 6-8 blocks west - and you're in the middle of urban semi-garbage (we do have some terrible neighborhoods here - but most people don't seem to ask about them for the most part - not too many people on chat boards trying to find places to live that look like places you've see on The Wire).

Anyway - what is the motivation for people to move to a place when they don't have a job? Or to buy an expensive house after looking here for 2 weeks? I just don't get it. I like this area - but I still wouldn't jump into it head first without knowing anything it - or having a life preserver. Robyn

P.S. For everyone interested in good schools. We have some excellent private schools here. Best way to insure a great education is skimp on housing - and pay private school tuition fees.

You are so spot on! Even some of the old farts move here without a job! Guess they want to get here and apply for some kind of aid (free school lunches for their kids, etc) so all the Fla taxpayers can support them while they look for a job. Welcome newcomers, but only if you plan to enhance the community, not drain its resources (lack of funds).

[JagFan27]

Originally Posted by Robyn55

There are times when the job market's hot - and times when it's not. We are now in the latter. You were moving from one hot growth area to another when I suspect demand exceeded supply. These days - I certainly wouldn't move here without a job offer if I were a teacher. Probably wouldn't move to Las Vegas or Phoenix either (don't know anything about Dallas). Another complicating factor here is that even if you could get a job teaching in Duval County (I think most of St. Johns County is impossible) - you'd probably wind up in a pretty awful school (an unfortunate fact of teaching life is that the newest and frequently worst teachers wind up in the worst schools where the students need the most help). Robyn

That is not true. It just all depends on which school has an opening. A candidate interviews with a principal who has an opening. The district does not hire people and then place then where they are needed.
I am a teacher in a critical area, so I think I could still move and get a job, especially with my credentials.
But, I am at an age where I should think of retirement, so I am not going to jeopardize that.

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by James420

My family and I are looking to relocate to the Julington Creek area this Summer. I've been looking for jobs around Jacksonville and St Augustine. I'm hoping to get into JAX PORT as a pipefitter or plumber. I'm a journeyman plumber by trade and I started welding about four years ago. I won't move without a job and I can't see someone renting me a house without a job. I thought being a plumber, finding a job would be easy, not so. We still plan on moving down from Delaware soon but finding a job has been harder than I thought.

I don't know about the kinds of jobs available at JAX PORT (or what your skills are). I can tell you that we've used the same plumbing firm since we built our house 15 years ago (it did the original plumbing). At the height of the building boom maybe 4 years ago - it employed 75 plumbers (and it could take a week or more for an appointment except in case of emergency). Now it only employs 15 - and it can come same/next day for anything (it has been very sad for the owner to let go people who have worked for him for a very long time). Construction was a huge industry here - and now it isn't. Perhaps you have some specialized skills that might give you a "leg up" (I don't know much about being a plumber). If not - you're going to be competing with a lot of out-of-work plumbers. Sorry to sound blunt and brutal - but that's the way things are here. We try to find whatever work we can around the house for people these days - but I doubt what we do makes a dime's worth of difference compared to an unsustainable construction boom. Robyn

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948

probably both are true. it is for me. but if you point it out point #1 those on CDF will be eager to point out #2.

What's CDF? Robyn

[fsu813]

if i am almost 50 does that me me an old fart!!!! hope not!!!

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by jcs2000

It is not a question about people not caring about their credit rating. It is question of whether paying a mortgage on a depreciating underwater property is financially a good idea. And for many people, walking away is simply in their best financial interest. Corporations and investments groups do this routinely. It is no different for individuals. I don't think it is immoral or wrong.
See Lowenstein: Yes you can walk away from your mortgage Video

It probably makes financial sense to put an elderly sick parent on an ice floe instead of giving them help - or for me to try to **** you if we have a somewhat ambiguous deal because I'm a lawyer - and you're not - and I can hold your feet to the fire and make your life miserable. Etc.

The thing that is different for individuals (as opposed to the corporations you mention - which I happen to think are slime) is we are people - who have families - who live in communities. Now I may not love my neighbors - or even like some of them - but if they have done the right things to make my community a pleasant place to live - why should I or others say [expletive deleted] to them to save a few bucks (and go out and spend it on junk - there is a lot of speculation that the recent increases in consumer spending have come from people who have walked away from their mortgages and now have more money to spend on prom dresses).

I happen to like civilized society. The kind that comes from people honoring the "social contract". If you don't - I suggest you reread your Hobbes (and similar political philosophers):

"Whatsoever therefore is consequent to a time of war, where every man is enemy to every man, the same consequent to the time wherein men live without other security than what their own strength and their own invention shall furnish them withal. In such condition there is no place for industry, because the fruit thereof is uncertain: and consequently no culture of the earth; no navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by sea; no commodious building; no instruments of moving and removing such things as require much force; no knowledge of the face of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."

The "me first me only" society is the "no one" society. I hope it doesn't come to that. My husband and I have the means to leave if we care to - and go anywhere. Do you and your children? Ask yourself that before breaking your "social contract". Robyn

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by Deef1

You are so spot on! Even some of the old farts move here without a job! Guess they want to get here and apply for some kind of aid (free school lunches for their kids, etc) so all the Fla taxpayers can support them while they look for a job. Welcome newcomers, but only if you plan to enhance the community, not drain its resources (lack of funds).

I think people who move here for "benefits" will be disappointed. We're a very stingy state. Robyn

[SunnyDay70]

Originally Posted by Robyn55

Drives me nuts. I got out of school in the early 70's - a little before the '73-'74 recession. And would never in a million years think of moving to a new place - even as a young single person - without having a job (or - at a bare minimum - excellent prospects). I did have a job when I moved to Miami in 1971. First the job - then a modest rental (albeit in a nice neighborhood - real estate was a lot cheaper then) - which I could easily afford.

I'd be interested to hear what it was like living in Miami as a young single person in the early 1970's...???

My first trip to Miami was in 1991 so already a lot had changed. Sorry if this is a bit off topic.

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by JagFan27

That is not true. It just all depends on which school has an opening. A candidate interviews with a principal who has an opening. The district does not hire people and then place then where they are needed.
I am a teacher in a critical area, so I think I could still move and get a job, especially with my credentials.
But, I am at an age where I should think of retirement, so I am not going to jeopardize that.

I really can't talk with any authority about the Duval County school system. I know that's the way it works in St. Johns County - and it worked that way when my husband took some time off from law school and worked as a teacher in the NYC school system (he was sent to middle school in the south Bronx - we got married shortly thereafter - he figured marrying me couldn't be any worse than being a teacher in the south Bronx ). Robyn