Would you lie and act as a "professional employment reference" for a friend? (interest)
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To those of you who disagree with me: in the military, you had no peers who would speak on your behalf? For the one self employed, you had no collegues to speak on your behalf? Did you network at all? Did you have long standing customers who could speak for you? I have several family members who are self employed, and I don't see how that is an excuse to not have some sort of reference.
I'm not trying to be mean, but I can't believe anyone could be so isolated from the rest of the world. And if one is, I would wonder how well he or she will adjust to being back in the workforce, dealing with people (coworkers, customers, etc.) every day.
Thats easy, those military friends are located in Europe on assignment, or are serving in the War and there's no way to contact them unless the employer wants to pay for a long distance phone call. Or you haven't seen those people in 10+ years and they have since left the military themselves and gone home and resumed thier own lives. There's no easy way for an employer to track them down. Even if they did, those guys wouldn't know you as a person NOW, they'd only know about you in 10+ yr old memories as some 18-20 yr old kid and hence that info from them would be useless and outdated.
As far as relatives, mine don't own businesses and would be considered personal references, not professional references. So yes, it is possible to live as a single person for a decade or more with no friends to speak of and if you haven't worked in a loooong time, then no coworkers either.
Thats easy, those military friends are located in Europe on assignment, or are serving in the War and there's no way to contact them unless the employer wants to pay for a long distance phone call. Or you haven't seen those people in 10+ years and they have since left the military themselves and gone home and resumed thier own lives. There's no easy way for an employer to track them down. Even if they did, those guys wouldn't know you as a person NOW, they'd only know about you in 10+ yr old memories as some 18-20 yr old kid and hence that info from them would be useless and outdated.
Ten years ago?!? And in 10 years, you haven't met or worked with anyone that would serve as a reference?
My advice to anyone in this position is to go to church, volunteer, take a class, put yourself in a position where you can meet people who can speak on your behalf, and at your next job, maintain good relations with the people you work with. You can argue that you should not have to do all that, that your work should just speak for itself, but realistically, if you don't have good references, you're going to have an awfully hard time getting a job.
Ten years ago?!? And in 10 years, you haven't met or worked with anyone that would serve as a reference?
My advice to anyone in this position is to go to church, volunteer, take a class, put yourself in a position where you can meet people who can speak on your behalf, and at your next job, maintain good relations with the people you work with. You can argue that you should not have to do all that, that your work should just speak for itself, but realistically, if you don't have good references, you're going to have an awfully hard time getting a job.
I was responding specifically to military contacts, since you had mentioned it.
Yes my work contacts are 6 yrs old and across the country. I've been a stay-at-home parent for a handicapped child all that time. Doesn't leave alot of time for socialization or freetime for just me.
I haven't enjoyed losing all my friends and any social contact with adults, but it can happen. Sorry that you think its "easy" but I guess you have to walk a mile in someone's shoes to really know their take on things and see what they mean.
Glad its that easy for you, though
Last edited by Jackyfrost01; 11-06-2008 at 12:24 PM..
To those of you who disagree with me: in the military, you had no peers who would speak on your behalf? For the one self employed, you had no collegues to speak on your behalf? Did you network at all? Did you have long standing customers who could speak for you? I have several family members who are self employed, and I don't see how that is an excuse to not have some sort of reference.
I'm not trying to be mean, but I can't believe anyone could be so isolated from the rest of the world. And if one is, I would wonder how well he or she will adjust to being back in the workforce, dealing with people (coworkers, customers, etc.) every day.
I don't make personal connections with people I work with. I've seen too many people that brought their personal conflicts with other people into the workplace, and their work suffered for it. By focusing solely on my JOB, I've consistently gotten good reviews, and regular raises.
The whole reference checking process is almost an after-thought in the recruitment process. Usually the reference check is the last part of the process and the manager wants to hire someone quickly. They are angry the process has dragged on so long and want the new person in the job asap.
When references are called 8 out of 10 times the person does not answer the phone at the first call. A voice mail is left and the game of telephone tag is started. When the people do connect-- it is usually a rushed call and a few standard questions. A well trained friend can easily be a good reference.
Is honesty the best policy, maybe. I think the whole process is so corrupt that the best BS'er usually gets the job.
Some companies take the reference checking process much more seriously and carefully than what you are describing. I'm a hiring manager and I've caught applicants creating dishonest references with friends playing a created role for them. Lying is grounds for immediate removal from the recruiting process or immediate termination if we later discover that an employee has lied to us at any point in the past. We scrutinize everything much, much more closely now than in the past, and we have processes in place to double check that people are who they say they are and have accomplished what they say they have (and no, I'm not going to outline our system here because I'm not going to do anything that would make it easier for liars to get away with it).
I've had former coworkers who I didn't supervise ask me to be a reference for them. Each one of them I've told that I would be happy to, but that I would make it clear that I was a coworker, not a supervisor.
I wouldn't lie for someone, you never know when it's going to come back and bite you.
Basically Woof Woof, Dingler is a racist, or just plainly dislikes a lot of people! If you can help him out, he is looking for a place to live where there are no hispanics!!
How about buying him a ticket to the moon!!
But I don't think he is Weekend guy, but on 2nd thoughts, you may be right. And maybe Dingler is Weekend Guy, but under one of several monikers. But to me, he definitely sounds more real than our weekend guy, who is more rhetorical. Where Dingler is more in your face with his point of view!!
Basically Woof Woof, Dingler is a racist, or just plainly dislikes a lot of people! If you can help him out, he is looking for a place to live where there are no hispanics!!
How about buying him a ticket to the moon!!
But I don't think he is Weekend guy, but on 2nd thoughts, you may be right. And maybe Dingler is Weekend Guy, but under one of several monikers. But to me, he definitely sounds more real than our weekend guy, who is more rhetorical. Where Dingler is more in your face with his point of view!!
just a thought!
This thread is over two years old. The O.P. "Dingler" is no longer a member, which generally means the mods kicked him off the board.
The person behind the moniker is a man living unhappily in North Virginia who keeps coming back to the board under different aliases with a new story each time, most recently he is pretending to be a female recruiter named "Weekend Traveler."
This thread is over two years old. The O.P. "Dingler" is no longer a member, which generally means the mods kicked him off the board.
The person behind the moniker is a man living unhappily in North Virginia who keeps coming back to the board under different aliases with a new story each time, most recently he is pretending to be a female recruiter named "Weekend Traveler."
That Dingler person everyone seems to think of me is still a member. So he or she could still post so why would I want to start a new name because Dingler has more points, and has much more interesting threads than me.
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Dingler is still a member
