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Old 12-21-2012, 11:53 AM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,868 posts, read 12,564,078 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
This may be a bit deeper than I am capable of fully understanding.
Im sure you can understand

here is how i understand it (better informed will pardon me for simplifying)

Lurianic Kabbalah, the dominant school of jewish mysticism, holds that when the world was created, to create "space" for the world, G-d had to withdraw himself. Which caused a cosmic change, that resulted in divine holiness being trapped in evil matter (thus a neo platonic/ gnostic distinction between the evil material world, the holy hidden - this found in some forms of muslim and christian mysticism, I believe)

To releast the sparks of holiness, one performs divine commandments, prays, and engages in meditation and other mystical exercises. (this is at the root of much hassidic emphasis on the holiness of the mundane)

To Sabbatai, it was not only important to release the sparks in the mundane - but to release the sparks in actual sins. To do this, he publicly vioated certain ritual laws (eating on fast days, for example).

When he arrive in Istanbul, the Sultan, apparently not liking the idea of a messiah/king claiming a certain territory - had him arrested and forced him to convert to Islam or die. He did convert - presumably out of fear of death. Many of those who continued to follow him claimed he was not afraid, but converted, because, by becoming a muslim, he could redeem the sparks of holiness contained within (sorry) Islam (Thats not a compliment to Islam -its a grouping of Islam with worldy, tangible things in need of redemption). A small minority of his followers decided they were obliged to follow him and also converted, though they were NOT forced to (whatever one beleives about the long history of Jews under muslim regimes, the 17th century Ottomans were certainly one of the friendliest to the Jews) These were the Donmeh. Who eventually died out toward the end of the 19th century (their limited marriage pool would have been a severe constraint) Gershom Sholem says that some of the Young Turks came from Donmeh families.
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Old 03-07-2015, 05:28 AM
 
Location: Australia
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Wasn't the messiah supposed to come before the temple was destroyed for the second time?
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Old 03-08-2015, 03:21 AM
 
Location: Long Island
1,791 posts, read 1,865,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussieman View Post
Wasn't the messiah supposed to come before the temple was destroyed for the second time?
No.
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Old 03-11-2015, 07:59 PM
 
3,804 posts, read 6,173,875 times
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I am unclear. Are these folks still around, or did they die out?
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Old 03-11-2015, 11:55 PM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,707 posts, read 30,753,834 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuburnAL View Post
I am unclear. Are these folks still around, or did they die out?
Which folks? In ones in this thread are mostly still here except for brooklynborndad. This thread was finished from our POV in 2012.
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Old 03-12-2015, 09:45 PM
 
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The Sabbatianists.
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Old 03-13-2015, 12:40 AM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuburnAL View Post
The Sabbatianists.

From Sabbateanism to Hassidism
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Old 03-13-2015, 03:34 AM
Zur
 
949 posts, read 831,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussieman View Post
Wasn't the messiah supposed to come before the temple was destroyed for the second time?
Malachi chapter 3 says that the Messiah, whom the Jews seek, will come to His temple and that He is the Lord himself. He is the messenger of the covenant, which one? He has the refiners fire to purify the sons of Levi. Chapter 4 says that the Jews have to remember the law of Moses and before the Day of the Lord comes He will send Elijah Mal 4:5.
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Old 03-21-2015, 11:14 PM
 
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From my very limited understanding in every generation, there is someone worthy enough to be revealed as King Moshiach such as the late great Rebbe of righteous memory, but that has NOT happened yet.
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Old 12-15-2017, 09:22 AM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,868 posts, read 12,564,078 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zur View Post
Malachi chapter 3 says that the Messiah, whom the Jews seek, will come to His temple and that He is the Lord himself. He is the messenger of the covenant, which one? He has the refiners fire to purify the sons of Levi. Chapter 4 says that the Jews have to remember the law of Moses and before the Day of the Lord comes He will send Elijah Mal 4:5.
No, it says the lord whom the Jews seek. The word used is "adon" - "lord". Not the word moshiach "messiah"

It also emphasizes that the coming of the lord to the Temple will be sudden "pitom"
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