Did Jews at Jesus' time believe in endless hell for the wicked? (Christians, translation)
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I suppose the sect of the Sadducees (sp?) believed when you die that's the end of you, so they would not have believed in eternal torments (ET) or any afterlife punishment for evildoers like Hitler.
But i've heard it said the much more influential Pharisees (& Essenes) preached ET.
What do the experts say? Any scholars here?
BTW it seems Jesus was constantly at odds with the Pharisees re their practices & views. And it is debated whether St. Paul, a former leading Pharisee, believed in universal salvation.
The talmud explains that the mourning period for a relative is no more than 12 months as that is the maximum punishment for the soul after death.
However, there are differing views about the soul of the evilest of evil people:
"Only the very righteous go directly to Gan Eden. The average person descends to a place of punishment and/or purification, generally referred to as Gehinnom (guh-hee-NOHM) (in Yiddish, Gehenna), but sometimes as She'ol or by other names. According to one mystical view, every sin we commit creates an angel of destruction (a demon), and after we die we are punished by the very demons that we created. Some views see Gehinnom as one of severe punishment, a bit like the Christian Hell of fire and brimstone. Other sources merely see it as a time when we can see the actions of our lives objectively, see the harm that we have done and the opportunities we missed, and experience remorse for our actions. The period of time in Gehinnom does not exceed 12 months, and then ascends to take his place on Olam Ha-Ba.
Only the utterly wicked do not ascend at the end of this period; their souls are punished for the entire 12 months. Sources differ on what happens at the end of those 12 months: some say that the wicked soul is utterly destroyed and ceases to exist while others say that the soul continues to exist in a state of consciousness of remorse.
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"The key observance for the extended mourning period is saying Kaddish [the memorial prayer] each day in the synagogue. Although one would expect the obligation to last for 12 months, it lasts only for 11. The explanation for this perplexing rule seems to lie in a tradition which states that the most time a person could possibly spend in the netherworld is 12 months. After that, even the blackest soul has atoned for its evil doings and is permitted to make its way to heaven. The recitation of Kaddish helps guarantee safe passage from the lower realms to the upper. Therefore, if a child recited Kaddish a full 12 months, he might be suggesting that his parents would not leave the netherworld until the end of this period of time–that is, that they were inveterate sinners. The custom thus arose of reciting Kaddish for parents for 11 months only (Shulhan Arukh, Yoreh Deah 376:4)." A Year of Mourning for Parents - My Jewish Learning
---------------------
"Then why is Kaddish recited for only 11 months, when the mourning period is 12 months? According to Jewish tradition, the soul must spend some time purifying itself before it can enter heaven. The maximum time required for purification is 12 months, for the most evil person. To recite Kaddish for 12 months would imply that the parent was the type who needed 12 months of purification! To avoid this implication, the Sages decreed that a son should recite Kaddish for only eleven months."
The talmud explains that the mourning period for a relative is no more than 12 months as that is the maximum punishment for the soul after death.
However, there are differing views about the soul of the evilest of evil people:
"Only the very righteous go directly to Gan Eden. The average person descends to a place of punishment and/or purification, generally referred to as Gehinnom (guh-hee-NOHM) (in Yiddish, Gehenna), but sometimes as She'ol or by other names. According to one mystical view, every sin we commit creates an angel of destruction (a demon), and after we die we are punished by the very demons that we created. Some views see Gehinnom as one of severe punishment, a bit like the Christian Hell of fire and brimstone. Other sources merely see it as a time when we can see the actions of our lives objectively, see the harm that we have done and the opportunities we missed, and experience remorse for our actions. The period of time in Gehinnom does not exceed 12 months, and then ascends to take his place on Olam Ha-Ba.
Only the utterly wicked do not ascend at the end of this period; their souls are punished for the entire 12 months. Sources differ on what happens at the end of those 12 months: some say that the wicked soul is utterly destroyed and ceases to exist while others say that the soul continues to exist in a state of consciousness of remorse.
--------------
"The key observance for the extended mourning period is saying Kaddish [the memorial prayer] each day in the synagogue. Although one would expect the obligation to last for 12 months, it lasts only for 11. The explanation for this perplexing rule seems to lie in a tradition which states that the most time a person could possibly spend in the netherworld is 12 months. After that, even the blackest soul has atoned for its evil doings and is permitted to make its way to heaven. The recitation of Kaddish helps guarantee safe passage from the lower realms to the upper. Therefore, if a child recited Kaddish a full 12 months, he might be suggesting that his parents would not leave the netherworld until the end of this period of time–that is, that they were inveterate sinners. The custom thus arose of reciting Kaddish for parents for 11 months only (Shulhan Arukh, Yoreh Deah 376:4)." A Year of Mourning for Parents - My Jewish Learning
---------------------
"Then why is Kaddish recited for only 11 months, when the mourning period is 12 months? According to Jewish tradition, the soul must spend some time purifying itself before it can enter heaven. The maximum time required for purification is 12 months, for the most evil person. To recite Kaddish for 12 months would imply that the parent was the type who needed 12 months of purification! To avoid this implication, the Sages decreed that a son should recite Kaddish for only eleven months."
The talmud explains that the mourning period for a relative is no more than 12 months as that is the maximum punishment for the soul after death.
However, there are differing views about the soul of the evilest of evil people:
"Only the very righteous go directly to Gan Eden. The average person descends to a place of punishment and/or purification, generally referred to as Gehinnom (guh-hee-NOHM) (in Yiddish, Gehenna), but sometimes as She'ol or by other names. According to one mystical view, every sin we commit creates an angel of destruction (a demon), and after we die we are punished by the very demons that we created. Some views see Gehinnom as one of severe punishment, a bit like the Christian Hell of fire and brimstone. Other sources merely see it as a time when we can see the actions of our lives objectively, see the harm that we have done and the opportunities we missed, and experience remorse for our actions. The period of time in Gehinnom does not exceed 12 months, and then ascends to take his place on Olam Ha-Ba.
Only the utterly wicked do not ascend at the end of this period; their souls are punished for the entire 12 months. Sources differ on what happens at the end of those 12 months: some say that the wicked soul is utterly destroyed and ceases to exist while others say that the soul continues to exist in a state of consciousness of remorse.
--------------
"The key observance for the extended mourning period is saying Kaddish [the memorial prayer] each day in the synagogue. Although one would expect the obligation to last for 12 months, it lasts only for 11. The explanation for this perplexing rule seems to lie in a tradition which states that the most time a person could possibly spend in the netherworld is 12 months. After that, even the blackest soul has atoned for its evil doings and is permitted to make its way to heaven. The recitation of Kaddish helps guarantee safe passage from the lower realms to the upper. Therefore, if a child recited Kaddish a full 12 months, he might be suggesting that his parents would not leave the netherworld until the end of this period of time–that is, that they were inveterate sinners. The custom thus arose of reciting Kaddish for parents for 11 months only (Shulhan Arukh, Yoreh Deah 376:4)." A Year of Mourning for Parents - My Jewish Learning
---------------------
"Then why is Kaddish recited for only 11 months, when the mourning period is 12 months? According to Jewish tradition, the soul must spend some time purifying itself before it can enter heaven. The maximum time required for purification is 12 months, for the most evil person. To recite Kaddish for 12 months would imply that the parent was the type who needed 12 months of purification! To avoid this implication, the Sages decreed that a son should recite Kaddish for only eleven months."
Kaddish is not a prayer for the dead. It's a reaffirmation of ones belief in G_d despite the loss.
This is certainly true. However, note also that one of rosend's quotes includes "The recitation of Kaddish helps guarantee safe passage from the lower realms to the upper." You are probably familiar with this concept. It seems from some of the quotes that it has been around for quite some time. According to this concept, each Kaddish has a beneficial effect on the soul. So the popular misconception is certainly understandable, although your unequivocal reminder is clearly needed from time to time, even though one would think that a simple examination of a translation would make it obvious.
This is certainly true. However, note also that one of rosend's quotes includes "The recitation of Kaddish helps guarantee safe passage from the lower realms to the upper." You are probably familiar with this concept. It seems from some of the quotes that it has been around for quite some time. According to this concept, each Kaddish has a beneficial effect on the soul. So the popular misconception is certainly understandable, although your unequivocal reminder is clearly needed from time to time, even though one would think that a simple examination of a translation would make it obvious.
Which part:
Exalted and hallowed be God's great name
in the world which God created, according to plan.
May God's majesty be revealed in the days of our lifetime
and the life of all Israel -- speedily, imminently, to which we say Amen.
Blessed be God's great name to all eternity.
Blessed, praised, honored, exalted, extolled, glorified, adored, and lauded
be the name of the Holy Blessed One, beyond all earthly words and songs of blessing,
praise, and comfort. To which we say Amen.
May there be abundant peace from heaven, and life, for us and all Israel,
to which we say Amen.
May the One who creates harmony on high, bring peace to us and to all Israel.
To which we say Amen.
The talmud explains that the mourning period for a relative is no more than 12 months as that is the maximum punishment for the soul after death.
However, there are differing views about the soul of the evilest of evil people:
"Only the very righteous go directly to Gan Eden. The average person descends to a place of punishment and/or purification, generally referred to as Gehinnom (guh-hee-NOHM) (in Yiddish, Gehenna), but sometimes as She'ol or by other names. According to one mystical view, every sin we commit creates an angel of destruction (a demon), and after we die we are punished by the very demons that we created. Some views see Gehinnom as one of severe punishment, a bit like the Christian Hell of fire and brimstone. Other sources merely see it as a time when we can see the actions of our lives objectively, see the harm that we have done and the opportunities we missed, and experience remorse for our actions. The period of time in Gehinnom does not exceed 12 months, and then ascends to take his place on Olam Ha-Ba.
Only the utterly wicked do not ascend at the end of this period; their souls are punished for the entire 12 months. Sources differ on what happens at the end of those 12 months: some say that the wicked soul is utterly destroyed and ceases to exist while others say that the soul continues to exist in a state of consciousness of remorse.
--------------
"The key observance for the extended mourning period is saying Kaddish [the memorial prayer] each day in the synagogue. Although one would expect the obligation to last for 12 months, it lasts only for 11. The explanation for this perplexing rule seems to lie in a tradition which states that the most time a person could possibly spend in the netherworld is 12 months. After that, even the blackest soul has atoned for its evil doings and is permitted to make its way to heaven. The recitation of Kaddish helps guarantee safe passage from the lower realms to the upper. Therefore, if a child recited Kaddish a full 12 months, he might be suggesting that his parents would not leave the netherworld until the end of this period of time–that is, that they were inveterate sinners. The custom thus arose of reciting Kaddish for parents for 11 months only (Shulhan Arukh, Yoreh Deah 376:4)." A Year of Mourning for Parents - My Jewish Learning
---------------------
"Then why is Kaddish recited for only 11 months, when the mourning period is 12 months? According to Jewish tradition, the soul must spend some time purifying itself before it can enter heaven. The maximum time required for purification is 12 months, for the most evil person. To recite Kaddish for 12 months would imply that the parent was the type who needed 12 months of purification! To avoid this implication, the Sages decreed that a son should recite Kaddish for only eleven months."
Makes one wonder how And why the Christians extended it to eternity...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany
Control.
Exactly.
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