Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Wondering if majority of Jews pay much attention to studying or even reading the Zohar? There are English translations, like that of Daniel Matt available. His multi-volume version, by Stanford U. Press is almost complete.
Wondering if majority of Jews pay much attention to studying or even reading the Zohar? There are English translations, like that of Daniel Matt available. His multi-volume version, by Stanford U. Press is almost complete.
No, most do not study the Zohar. Studying the Zohar is a very advanced level of investigation which requires a solid base of knowledge defined by many years of intense study of the Tanach and the Talmud. It is not something which can be picked up (especially in translation) and studied in an intellectual vacuum.
No, most do not study the Zohar. Studying the Zohar is a very advanced level of investigation which requires a solid base of knowledge defined by many years of intense study of the Tanach and the Talmud. It is not something which can be picked up (especially in translation) and studied in an intellectual vacuum.
I thought that was the case. Seems I heard somewhere that study of it had to wait until one was over 40 years of age.
Having read some of the English versions of the Zohar, it seemed that the comments within it were often more mystical in tone and not obviously based on prior years of study.
So do you think there is little or no spiritual value to anyone, Jew or not, in reading the Zohar in translation? If so, I wonder why such translations exist?
I thought that was the case. Seems I heard somewhere that study of it had to wait until one was over 40 years of age.
Having read some of the English versions of the Zohar, it seemed that the comments within it were often more mystical in tone and not obviously based on prior years of study.
So do you think there is little or no spiritual value to anyone, Jew or not, in reading the Zohar in translation? If so, I wonder why such translations exist?
The traditional notion is 40 years old, married and fluent in all the prerequisite texts. I recall the first sentence I read which referred to someone as a "glass mirror with no light" and used the word "aspaklaria". If you look up that word, you will see that it is more than just a vocabulary word -- it invokes a whole host of other ideas and uses.
In the original, the choice of a word or phrase might load up allusions and connections which are lost in translation. A translation supplemented by commentary can give more information but still be lacking. I think there is incredible spiritual value for the right person studying it in the right mode and the right way. Translations exist because people decide that it can be reduced and understood simply and they demand access.
The traditional notion is 40 years old, married and fluent in all the prerequisite texts. I recall the first sentence I read which referred to someone as a "glass mirror with no light" and used the word "aspaklaria". If you look up that word, you will see that it is more than just a vocabulary word -- it invokes a whole host of other ideas and uses.
In the original, the choice of a word or phrase might load up allusions and connections which are lost in translation. A translation supplemented by commentary can give more information but still be lacking. I think there is incredible spiritual value for the right person studying it in the right mode and the right way. Translations exist because people decide that it can be reduced and understood simply and they demand access.
Yes indeed, the Zohar is chock full of word lights, not word play. Seems Hebrew words can be read in more ways than one. Same with Sanskrit, Chinese etc.
Studying in the right mode and way suggests the need for a kabbalah guru, or whatever is the proper word.
"Demand access" - yes, but that can be a call of the Soul or Spirit, not just ambition or craving for secrets. Nor do I think translations of any truly mystical work are necessarily motivated by thinking the text will reveal all.
Yes indeed, the Zohar is chock full of word lights, not word play. Seems Hebrew words can be read in more ways than one. Same with Sanskrit, Chinese etc.
Studying in the right mode and way suggests the need for a kabbalah guru, or whatever is the proper word.
"Demand access" - yes, but that can be a call of the Soul or Spirit, not just ambition or craving for secrets. Nor do I think translations of any truly mystical work are necessarily motivated by thinking the text will reveal all.
However, trying to understand the Kabbalistic ideas (let alone works) when one is not starting from the right place and approaching the texts and concepts in the right way will more likely lead to a negative end: wrong ideas, misunderstandings, false conclusions. One should not start if one is not in a position to start. Sadly, too many people think they are in that position or think that one can gain "something" from a concerted, if misguided, effort.
---
Hamlet, act 4, scene 7
if this should fail,
And that our drift look through our bad performance,
'Twere better not assay'd
However, trying to understand the Kabbalistic ideas (let alone works) when one is not starting from the right place and approaching the texts and concepts in the right way will more likely lead to a negative end: wrong ideas, misunderstandings, false conclusions. One should not start if one is not in a position to start. Sadly, too many people think they are in that position or think that one can gain "something" from a concerted, if misguided, effort.
---
Hamlet, act 4, scene 7
if this should fail,
And that our drift look through our bad performance,
'Twere better not assay'd
There is always on the spiritual path a tension between safety and progress. Nothing ventured, nothing gained vs failure. But only giving up is true failure, but that is allowing for many lifetimes. Maybe you do not think we have more than one?
As for the King's words - what came before:
Weigh what convenience both of time and means
May fit us to our shape,
And that our drift look through our bad performance,
This is a cunning plan from a crafty mind. If one treads the spiritual path with evil or vile intent, then you are right, full stop. But with noble intent, even altruistic motive, then a positive end is not forestalled.
There is always on the spiritual path a tension between safety and progress. Nothing ventured, nothing gained vs failure. But only giving up is true failure, but that is allowing for many lifetimes. Maybe you do not think we have more than one?
As for the King's words - what came before:
Weigh what convenience both of time and means
May fit us to our shape,
And that our drift look through our bad performance,
This is a cunning plan from a crafty mind. If one treads the spiritual path with evil or vile intent, then you are right, full stop. But with noble intent, even altruistic motive, then a positive end is not forestalled.
I quoted those lines because the point is "if you can't do it right, then it is better not to try." Someone who reads the Zohar just to learn "something" without the requisite skills or understandings is not doing it right.
Yes indeed, the Zohar is chock full of word lights, not word play. Seems Hebrew words can be read in more ways than one. Same with Sanskrit, Chinese etc.
Studying in the right mode and way suggests the need for a kabbalah guru, or whatever is the proper word.
"Demand access" - yes, but that can be a call of the Soul or Spirit, not just ambition or craving for secrets. Nor do I think translations of any truly mystical work are necessarily motivated by thinking the text will reveal all.
Zohar is part of Torah.
to try and study Zohar separate and apart from Torah is ludicrous.
Zohar is part of Torah.
to try and study Zohar separate and apart from Torah is ludicrous.
Since the Zohar is a profound commentary on the Torah, such a reading exercise may be many things, but not 'ludicrous'.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
