U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Judaism
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-02-2017, 12:18 AM
 
Location: North by Northwest
7,442 posts, read 9,875,598 times
Reputation: 4687

Advertisements

I infrequently post in this sub-forum, mostly due to the fact that I am firmly secular and most of the discussions here are theologically oriented. However, my secularity is devout in the sense that Judaism's ethnic and cultural components are central to my identity, and I acknowledge and respect that these aspects of being Jewish would not have developed independently of Judaism, the religion. I don't expect or need anyone's approval. I'm only laying this as a foundation for my thoughts on the title topic.

I imagine that most posters here live in, or near, communities with eruvin, and many rely on them to travel to and from shul during Shabbat. My hometown, a once Wasp-dominated community complete with racially and religiously restrictive real estate covenants, underwent an initial major wave of Jewish migration in the '50s through '70s. Although one of the first neighborhood synagogues was Orthodox, most Jewish families were Conservative, Reform, and secular. More religious Jews did not join in large numbers until the '90s, when a combination of upward social mobility, and decaying conditions in their neighborhoods across the city line, gave reason and opportunity to cross the border. This included construction of two eruvin, which have expanded several times and now cover almost the entire Eastern third of town. While I don't believe any anti-eruv lawsuits were filed, there was still some tension as modern and ultra Orthodox families moved in. Of course, most of the tension came from the more established and less religious Jews in town. In many ways, the town's non-Jewish community was quicker to recognize that their new neighbors, however much they stood out in appearance, kept to themselves and bothered on one. Eventually, things settled down, and even if they tended not to interact with one another, the town's more and less adherent Jews achieved coexistence.

Years later, when I was in law school and took a Church and State course, it was interesting to hear that many towns across the nation had experienced hotly contested litigation over the right to build eruvin. I was most fascinated by the anti-eruv crusade that took place in upscale, plurality-Jewish Tenafly, NJ, and was led by a mayor named Moscovitz and included an abundance of allies with distinctive Jewish names. Whatever one thinks of Hasidic-established cities like Kiryas Joel, NY, or rapidly growing ultra-ultra-Orthdox presences in once-mixed towns like Lakewood, NJ, it's just plain irrational to fear that people who study Talmud in lieu of paid work and receive government assistance will magically buy $1.5mm homes with $30k annual property tax bills. It's Philip Roth's Eli the Fanatic come to real life, and there are few things worse than seeing Jews leap to do the dirty work of anti-Semites.

That all stands independent of the fact that federal judges across the country have reached the reasoned conclusion that the First Amendment's Establishment Clause is not violated when the communities served by the eruvin are responsible for arranging and paying for the construction and maintenance of small, discrete wires that follow utility poles.

Have any of you witnessed or experienced eruvin-related controversy? If so, who were the most outspoken anti-eruv activists? How did it all turn out?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-02-2017, 01:08 AM
 
13,092 posts, read 13,683,396 times
Reputation: 9156
I now live in a town with an eruv completed 2008 no controversy, I like that within the eruv even on the same block there are million dollar homes and small 1 bedroom apartments. I like that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-02-2017, 02:53 AM
 
Location: US
27,953 posts, read 15,039,743 times
Reputation: 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElijahAstin View Post
I infrequently post in this sub-forum, mostly due to the fact that I am firmly secular and most of the discussions here are theologically oriented. However, my secularity is devout in the sense that Judaism's ethnic and cultural components are central to my identity, and I acknowledge and respect that these aspects of being Jewish would not have developed independently of Judaism, the religion. I don't expect or need anyone's approval. I'm only laying this as a foundation for my thoughts on the title topic.

I imagine that most posters here live in, or near, communities with eruvin, and many rely on them to travel to and from shul during Shabbat. My hometown, a once Wasp-dominated community complete with racially and religiously restrictive real estate covenants, underwent an initial major wave of Jewish migration in the '50s through '70s. Although one of the first neighborhood synagogues was Orthodox, most Jewish families were Conservative, Reform, and secular. More religious Jews did not join in large numbers until the '90s, when a combination of upward social mobility, and decaying conditions in their neighborhoods across the city line, gave reason and opportunity to cross the border. This included construction of two eruvin, which have expanded several times and now cover almost the entire Eastern third of town. While I don't believe any anti-eruv lawsuits were filed, there was still some tension as modern and ultra Orthodox families moved in. Of course, most of the tension came from the more established and less religious Jews in town. In many ways, the town's non-Jewish community was quicker to recognize that their new neighbors, however much they stood out in appearance, kept to themselves and bothered on one. Eventually, things settled down, and even if they tended not to interact with one another, the town's more and less adherent Jews achieved coexistence.

Years later, when I was in law school and took a Church and State course, it was interesting to hear that many towns across the nation had experienced hotly contested litigation over the right to build eruvin. I was most fascinated by the anti-eruv crusade that took place in upscale, plurality-Jewish Tenafly, NJ, and was led by a mayor named Moscovitz and included an abundance of allies with distinctive Jewish names. Whatever one thinks of Hasidic-established cities like Kiryas Joel, NY, or rapidly growing ultra-ultra-Orthdox presences in once-mixed towns like Lakewood, NJ, it's just plain irrational to fear that people who study Talmud in lieu of paid work and receive government assistance will magically buy $1.5mm homes with $30k annual property tax bills. It's Philip Roth's Eli the Fanatic come to real life, and there are few things worse than seeing Jews leap to do the dirty work of anti-Semites.

That all stands independent of the fact that federal judges across the country have reached the reasoned conclusion that the First Amendment's Establishment Clause is not violated when the communities served by the eruvin are responsible for arranging and paying for the construction and maintenance of small, discrete wires that follow utility poles.

Have any of you witnessed or experienced eruvin-related controversy? If so, who were the most outspoken anti-eruv activists? How did it all turn out?
I never experienced or noticed it in Lakewood, NJ...This is actually the first I've heard of this
..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-02-2017, 04:21 AM
 
Location: Long Island
1,711 posts, read 1,385,393 times
Reputation: 1405
There are eruvin all the place on Long Island, but I don't live in one; I just don't carry anything when I walk to synagogue on Shabbat or yom tovim.

In my experience, putting up an eruv doesn't usually affect anyone negatively. It's done with existing boundaries or wires added to already existing poles. As it's symbolic in nature, any resistance to it would have to be symbolic as well.

Growing up in the south, there were no ervin in my area, so no chance of any controversies.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-02-2017, 04:43 AM
 
392 posts, read 122,366 times
Reputation: 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElijahAstin View Post

I imagine that most posters here live in, or near, communities with eruvin, and many rely on them to travel to and from shul during Shabbat.
I don't know why you imagine this, and I doubt that it is true.

Your reading probably has you better informed on eruv litigation than most or all of us. Are you aware of any anti-eruv litigation initiated by a non-Jew?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-02-2017, 07:33 AM
 
Location: NJ
1,377 posts, read 493,994 times
Reputation: 590
I live right near Tenafly so I followed this closely when it happened. The concern was expressed by less observant Jews who didn't like the idea that Orthodox Jews would want to move in, not send their kids to the public schools and in some phantom way, ruin the nature of the town by being, well, Orthodox Jews. I can assure them that that doesn't happen. And if Orthodox Jews move in, why does that mean that the quality of the town is reduced. It was hateful litigation and the first amendment smokescreen was an embarrassment.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-02-2017, 03:05 PM
 
3,942 posts, read 3,337,959 times
Reputation: 1246
My shul (in a house) had a 2-year lawsuit with the HOA that governs the houses inside the eruv. In the end, the shul won, and the covenants were deemed unenforceable. The shul used RLUPA (religious land use protection act). A week after winning the lawsuit, the city filed against us to force us to become a commercial institution and that is still being litigated. Thankfully, an evangelical chrstian law firm that fights for religious liberty took our cases pro bono. Legal fees at roughly $750,000 so far. Dozens of news stories. And still sitting in legal hell.

So how do we ensure we win? Daven 22 times a week in a minyan. Learn Gamara daily. Good lawyers help, but you have to merit to win.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-02-2017, 03:59 PM
 
13,092 posts, read 13,683,396 times
Reputation: 9156
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
My shul (in a house) had a 2-year lawsuit with the HOA that governs the houses inside the eruv. In the end, the shul won, and the covenants were deemed unenforceable. The shul used RLUPA (religious land use protection act). A week after winning the lawsuit, the city filed against us to force us to become a commercial institution and that is still being litigated. Thankfully, an evangelical chrstian law firm that fights for religious liberty took our cases pro bono. Legal fees at roughly $750,000 so far. Dozens of news stories. And still sitting in legal hell.

So how do we ensure we win? Daven 22 times a week in a minyan. Learn Gamara daily. Good lawyers help, but you have to merit to win.
This boggles my mind the extent people go to objecting over a few bits of wire. I am glad the pro bono representation is there. Keep us posted.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-02-2017, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,353 posts, read 24,084,481 times
Reputation: 8864
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
My shul (in a house) had a 2-year lawsuit with the HOA that governs the houses inside the eruv. In the end, the shul won, and the covenants were deemed unenforceable. The shul used RLUPA (religious land use protection act). A week after winning the lawsuit, the city filed against us to force us to become a commercial institution and that is still being litigated. Thankfully, an evangelical chrstian law firm that fights for religious liberty took our cases pro bono. Legal fees at roughly $750,000 so far. Dozens of news stories. And still sitting in legal hell.

So how do we ensure we win? Daven 22 times a week in a minyan. Learn Gamara daily. Good lawyers help, but you have to merit to win.
It sounds like it was due to numerous cars causing traffic rather than a eruv.



HOA Sues Orthodox Jewish Congregation For Operating Synagogue In Home CBS Dallas / Fort Worth
Dallas - Court Rules In Favor Of Synagogue In Battle Between Dallas HOA, Rabbi
http://www.dallasobserver.com/news/a...elcome-7182328

Last edited by Pruzhany; 07-02-2017 at 07:46 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-02-2017, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,353 posts, read 24,084,481 times
Reputation: 8864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
This boggles my mind the extent people go to objecting over a few bits of wire. I am glad the pro bono representation is there. Keep us posted.
According to multiple websites it had nothing to do with wires. It was a home secretly being used as a synagogue in a residential neighborhood. The city filed against them so they would do what is required to get a conditional use permit and not commercial as stated by tff.

http://www.dallascityattorney.com/51/ARTICLE%20IV.pdf
https://www.libertyinstitute.org/document.doc?id=354

It's ongoing as it's mostly not compliant in meeting the requirements of a conditional use permit and the synagogue is trying to get the rules changed instead.

Last edited by Pruzhany; 07-02-2017 at 08:37 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Judaism
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top