[ScoopLV]

Originally Posted by LostVector

Your rationales are good, but I think you are confusing the fact that many or most new condo hotels were bad investments with the idea that all of them are, new or used. Just ask yourself this question ... 1) If a condo hotel were priced low enough, could it be worth buying? The answer is generally yes for a condo hotel.

2) Timeshares are still doing fine. Westgate seems to be going gangbusters, so something must be going right in that industry.

I added numbers:

1) No, I wouldn't take a condo hotel for free. They have a negative annual ROI. The HOA and management fees are more than they bring in. And think about it for a minute -- if it were the other way around, why would any company in their right mind SELL a profitable room. This is a means of generating management income while getting others to pay for it.

2) Timeshares are doing fine for the timeshare industry. The owners aren't making any money. Have a look at the resale market to see what one of those Westgate units is going for these days. Try TUG or Redweek. The answer? Not very much. I can buy a timeshare in Las Vegas, right now, for $1 from someone who is desperate to be out from under it. If that's what you call "going gangbusters" then I say you must be a salesman who works timeshares and/or condo hotels.

[LostVector]

Originally Posted by ScoopLV

I added numbers:

1) No, I wouldn't take a condo hotel for free. They have a negative annual ROI. The HOA and management fees are more than they bring in. And think about it for a minute -- if it were the other way around, why would any company in their right mind SELL a profitable room. This is a means of generating management income while getting others to pay for it.

2) Timeshares are doing fine for the timeshare industry. The owners aren't making any money. Have a look at the resale market to see what one of those Westgate units is going for these days. Try TUG or Redweek. The answer? Not very much. I can buy a timeshare in Las Vegas, right now, for $1 from someone who is desperate to be out from under it. If that's what you call "going gangbusters" then I say you must be a salesman who works timeshares and/or condo hotels.

Scoop, your numbers are severely misinformed if you think these Las Vegas rooms are losing money every month. That may be the case if someone bought a unit at the peak and is still paying a mortgage that isn't building real equity, or if you are looking at some very specific development that isn't representative of a good deal.

But are the HOA and management fees exceeding the revenues? No. Not even close in most of the LV developments. If you would not take one of these rooms for free, then you clearly don't even remotely understand the economics at play here. That's probably the correct decision for a timeshare, but what timeshare deposits money in your bank account every month?

The reason developers sell condo hotels is because it makes the financing much easier up front, which gets the building built with leverage.

Regarding the timeshare industry, you claimed that that industry wasn't able to sell. They are able to sell, which is what I pointed out very specifically. I did not claim it was good for the owners/buyers. We all know timeshare owners have always been universally screwed, and I have never claimed that buying a timeshare is a good decision.

[ScoopLV]

My friend with a LV condo hotel paid cash. The purchase price doesn't factor. The condo loses money every year. Fees are higher than revenue. I don't think I could possibly be any more clear.

Let's face it. If condo hotels were any damned good, Forbes would have a front page article "How to get paid to vacation!" And the Wall Street Journal would list the average returns for the top condo hotels. There would be a condo hotel index to compare new properties to. And everyone with the means would be bragging about their awesome condo-hotel success stories on C-D.

They aren't. And it's not because people who invest well hate tooting their own horn. The only people I see talking up condo hotels are salesmen and developers. I'm guessing that you fall into one of those categories.

[ohhboy]

Originally Posted by A96651

Yes, what is the difference though?

Youd be better off renting privately. UNLESS they charge an adminstrative fee of a few hundred just for no reason.


Its confirmed Palms Place does it and so does Platinum.

[A96651]

Originally Posted by ohhboy

Youd be better off renting privately. UNLESS they charge an adminstrative fee of a few hundred just for no reason.


Its confirmed Palms Place does it and so does Platinum.

Thanks Ohhboy, will think about it

[A96651]

Originally Posted by LostVector

Lots of know nothing's posting here.

First of all, the Signature is sold through completely, so the building management can't rent "their" units first, because they don't have any.

Second, the occupancy rates at Signature are higher than they've ever been. Meaning even the lesser units (lower floor, mountain side) are seeing high occupancy now. This wasn't the case a couple of years ago and is not guaranteed to be the case moving forward. But for now, it's good.

Nobody can tell you if 147k is a good deal because you haven't said anything about the unit. This indicates that you probably aren't at a good level of sophistication about this kind of investment and would benefit from studying up a bit more.

Sorry for not giving more details. you seems like knows quite a bit about signature, it was a shortsale on tower 1 close to MGM, mountain view but with MGM pool view also. 10th floor, the shortsale start from 138K in Dec,2013 to 146K( bank appraise is 159K).just get approved. (yes took 8 months). Broker said nothing was sold under 160K in the last 6 month

So what do you think?

Thanks a lot

I'm trying to get the statement for the last 6 months of the unit

[LostVector]

Originally Posted by ScoopLV

My friend with a LV condo hotel paid cash. The purchase price doesn't factor. The condo loses money every year. Fees are higher than revenue. I don't think I could possibly be any more clear.

Let's face it. If condo hotels were any damned good, Forbes would have a front page article "How to get paid to vacation!" And the Wall Street Journal would list the average returns for the top condo hotels. There would be a condo hotel index to compare new properties to. And everyone with the means would be bragging about their awesome condo-hotel success stories on C-D.

They aren't. And it's not because people who invest well hate tooting their own horn. The only people I see talking up condo hotels are salesmen and developers. I'm guessing that you fall into one of those categories.

Well I can't possibly be any more clear either. I own a unit. I have a couple of friends that I've met by virtue of being an owner that own several at the MGM and the Palms. They all cash flow. ALL OF THEM. They've all appreciated off the bottom too, but I have no intention to sell.

I didn't say they were great investments yet ... I've made better. but buying them a couple of years ago was like getting a dollar for 80 cents. Obviously undervalued, and they've done a little better than the average market so, really, not bad at all. I would argue even now that that is the case.

Stop accusing me of being a condotel salesman. Can you handle the truth that I'm telling you, or do you need to resort to name calling when your statements don't hold water? Perhaps you could explain where your friend bought and what he bought that is causing him to lose money. All anyone on this board has to do is call up a realtor and get a look at some rental statements for units on the market to see that they can make money.

[LostVector]

Originally Posted by A96651

Sorry for not giving more details. you seems like knows quite a bit about signature, it was a shortsale on tower 1 close to MGM, mountain view but with MGM pool view also. 10th floor, the shortsale start from 138K in Dec,2013 to 146K( bank appraise is 159K).just get approved. (yes took 8 months). Broker said nothing was sold under 160K in the last 6 month

So what do you think?

Thanks a lot

I'm trying to get the statement for the last 6 months of the unit

Just get the statements. Then feel free to report back here with the numbers since you will know the truth. Tower 1 is the best tower for being close to the MGM, which carries a slight premium. 146k is a good price in the current market.

[A96651]

Originally Posted by LostVector

Just get the statements. Then feel free to report back here with the numbers since you will know the truth. Tower 1 is the best tower for being close to the MGM, which carries a slight premium. 146k is a good price in the current market.

Will do, also here is the closing fee, would you please help to check if they are resonable?
doc recording fee: 85
transaction fee: 575
escrow fee: 375

Thanks

[LostVector]

Originally Posted by A96651

Will do, also here is the closing fee, would you please help to check if they are resonable?
doc recording fee: 85
transaction fee: 575
escrow fee: 375

Thanks

That's well under 1%. Seems fine.