[FML157]

this is bad for the State which uses taxes on gaming as a source of funding. Less gaming revenue = less revenue for the State to provide services Nevadans need like funding for education, mental health, social services, etc.....

[ScoopLV]

Originally Posted by stevek64

Some of the casinos I've noticed have quite a few people in their 20's/30's playing table games,

You're not thinking like a casino. Seeing "quite a few" isn't meaningful data. There aren't enough young people taking up gambling to offset dying boomers/silents. The millennials may yet fall in line and become just another generation of dupes. But I truly hope they don't.

[City Guy997S]

I have been to Vegas 3 times in 20 years, the last being the SEMA show last year. I am not a gambler but will throw a couple bucks on the tables if I am there. I left home with $2500 in cash (had sold an old truck so I had cash in hand). Stayed at the Aria, had dinner at the steakhouse in the Bellagio (good but not $400 good). Paid cash for everything we did, ate or drank......and came home with $3200. I had a good run on the roulette tables and left with their money. I had to pay for the airline tickets and the parking garage at the airport with the $3200 so the trip was almost totally free.

A few things I have realized about Las Vegas:

1. I hate smoking. I would regularly leave a gaming area if the smoke was too thick. This has to be a deterrent to many people other than me.
2. Everything is overpriced.....the Vegas is cheap theory is an old myth
3. Vegas is full of wannabe big shots. From fancy hotel suites, limos, exotic rental cars etc. Every average person from main street USA wants to be a big shot for 3-4 days a year then go back to their regular life waiting for the overswiped credit card bill to arrive!

With cruise ships, local indian casinos, online gaming and ever present lottery options the "gaming" side of Vegas is too far away for most people and the allure of winning is too small to get them on the plane!

[ScoopLV]

Originally Posted by City Guy997S

I have been to Vegas 3 times in 20 years, the last being the SEMA show last year. I am not a gambler but will throw a couple bucks on the tables if I am there. I left home with $2500 in cash (had sold an old truck so I had cash in hand). Stayed at the Aria, had dinner at the steakhouse in the Bellagio (good but not $400 good). Paid cash for everything we did, ate or drank......and came home with $3200. I had a good run on the roulette tables and left with their money. I had to pay for the airline tickets and the parking garage at the airport with the $3200 so the trip was almost totally free.

Roughly 10% of the visitors will have your kind of experience. That's just enough to keep people excited about this city so the other 90% can go home with less than nothing.

[BBMW]

I just checked the financials for the first 9 months of 2015 (it's too early for fourth quarter to be out yet) for MGM, WYNN, and LVS. All are solidly profitable. So someone is making money.

Originally Posted by stevek64

Nevada casinos hit by massive losses - Jan. 8, 2016

To disarm right off the bat for the few who might take this personal: I'm posting this as a discussion piece, not a flame/slam of Las Vegas as we enjoy visiting the city. Now that we are all relaxed and hopefully the topic is depersonalized......

Any ideas on what is on the horizon in Las Vegas to make it profitable as a whole? It appears the concept of restaurants, shopping, clubs, etc. isn't saving the day on why a business exists in the first place.....to make profit, not generate losses year after year and be happy with just revenue increases.

"Nevada's casino industry lost $662 million last year, and has been in the red consistently for six years. Things hit bottom in 2009 when the industry posted a staggering loss of $6.8 billion."

"The Strip is at an all-time high in revenue," he said, driven by hotel rooms, the second biggest spending category behind gambling, as well as retail and entertainment. "But gaming is lagging. That's why we're losing money."

Yes, the economy was poor, especially around the 2009 time frame. However, with all-time high revenue on the strip and high visitation this past year, and with supposed low nationwide unemployment, it appears to still not be a profitable industry overall. The economy ebbs/flows in cycles of recessions and boom times of course but in my view something has to be changed/a different business plan needs to be put in to place to prevent such big losses year after year after year, especially in a year like 2015.

So what can be done to make up for the loss of gaming revenue overall that's been a trend now for some time? Higher room rates seem to be an easy one perhaps given the article says it's the 2nd biggest spending category behind gambling. Crank up fees like resort fees again maybe too. Charging parking was another recent idea floated around perhaps.

Ideas/thoughts?

[irishspy]

What was the basic formula the mob used. 1. Cheap food let them eat. 2. Drinks pour it down their throats. 3. With that done screw them in the Casinos. Worked like a charm.

Now Corporate America formula 1. Over price the food. 2. Soak them on the drinks. 3. Screw them even more in the casino.

Along with the over pricing from the Airlines,hidden resort fees,getting soaked by the taxi industry,and entertainment pricing going out of sight (not to many free lounge acts anymore) and a very poor lacking transportation system it is uphill all of the way. No more big $$ from mainline China (they cracked down over there) that is the picture we look at now.

Convention business is saving LV ass right now but as world currency prices fluctuate because of the oil prices the foreign tourist visitors will drop off also.

The Casino/corporations are shooting them self in the foot so the bean counters can be correct in their projection each year without looking the past recession years and how hard it hit LV.

The big difference today is if a corporation/casino goes under they just declare bankruptcy and business as usual where before in the Mob days a bullet or bomb usually got things straighten out and the greed of the casinos bosses ended there. So this story will be ongoing for LV with hopefully a good ending.

[Willy702]

Originally Posted by irishspy

What was the basic formula the mob used. 1. Cheap food let them eat. 2. Drinks pour it down their throats. 3. With that done screw them in the Casinos. Worked like a charm.

Now Corporate America formula 1. Over price the food. 2. Soak them on the drinks. 3. Screw them even more in the casino.

Along with the over pricing from the Airlines,hidden resort fees,getting soaked by the taxi industry,and entertainment pricing going out of sight (not to many free lounge acts anymore) and a very poor lacking transportation system it is uphill all of the way. No more big $$ from mainline China (they cracked down over there) that is the picture we look at now.

Convention business is saving LV ass right now but as world currency prices fluctuate because of the oil prices the foreign tourist visitors will drop off also.

The Casino/corporations are shooting them self in the foot so the bean counters can be correct in their projection each year without looking the past recession years and how hard it hit LV.

The big difference today is if a corporation/casino goes under they just declare bankruptcy and business as usual where before in the Mob days a bullet or bomb usually got things straighten out and the greed of the casinos bosses ended there. So this story will be ongoing for LV with hopefully a good ending.

And yet the city sets new records for visitation and probably will for years to come.

[stevek64]

Originally Posted by BBMW

I just checked the financials for the first 9 months of 2015 (it's too early for fourth quarter to be out yet) for MGM, WYNN, and LVS. All are solidly profitable. So someone is making money.

But look where most of that growth/profit/revenue is coming from and that's China/Macau. And more specifically, gaming from China at their operations.

For example, Wynn back in early 2015/Q4 2014(just did a quick search for an example):

Struggling Macau hurts Wynn Resorts

In the article, notice where Wynn is building and where he's excited about making his money.....hint.....it's not Las Vegas

2015 Q3 wasn't pretty either in my view in regards to Las Vegas:

Wynn Resorts Q3 Earnings Top, Macau a Drag on Revenues - October 16, 2015 - Zacks.com

"Wynn Resorts’ revenues from Las Vegas operations declined 3.9% year over year to $411.2 million due to a decline in casino revenues, partially offset by an increase in non-casino revenues. Net casino revenues fell 14.8% from the prior-year period to $152.1 million. Table games win percentage was 23.7%, down 200 bps year over year. The decline was within the expected range of 21% to 24%."

And of course China's economy getting worse won't help matters but this thread is about Las Vegas.

Wynn's a smart guy/businessman and I wouldn't call the operation results from Las Vegas "solidly profitable". Macau/China/international/outside Las Vegas is driving the profit that exists based on my research.

[dogromeo]

Originally Posted by stevek64

Do you know when the machines began to tighten up in Las Vegas?

It's goes back more than a decade. Here are some statewide numbers pasted from a UNLV report:



Source: http://gaming.unlv.edu/reports/longterm_nvgaming.pdf

Those are statewide averages. Be aware that table game percentages are calculated differently than slots.

Slots have tightened substantially, while table holds have trended somewhat lower. The table game results could be influenced by several factors, including buy-in amounts, length of playing sessions, and skill. I would guess that players have become more competent at blackjack.

Other UNLV reports highlight regional differences. Basically, Reno has held its slot percentages steady for over a decade, while casinos throughout Clark County have tightened aggressively.

Nevada nevertheless continues to offer looser slots than nearly any other state (based on data at the American Casino Guide).

What about comps? According to another UNLV report, the big Vegas Strip casinos increased their comp expenses from 23% to 30% (of revenue) between 2008 and 2014.

Source: http://gaming.unlv.edu/reports/bigstripcasinotrends.pdf

That's a surprise to me.

[stevek64]

Thanks for that data Dogromeo. Interesting. In addition to your point, I have also noticed from the American Casino Guide the slot %'s vary based on strip, downtown, and more local casinos.

Doesn't surprise me on the comps on the strip. We have a subscription to the Las Vegas Advisor and noticed some decent food comps from many casinos. Of course it's a subscription so we don't have to play to get them but I'm surprised how generous some of them are at times of the year regardless.