[TheMoonMonster]

I know the subject line is a little hyperbolic, but that's pretty much the reaction I've been getting from friends when talking about how I've been thinking of moving to Vegas, and am planning a trip there in September to look around the non-strip (which I've never been to). I keep meaning to post here for advice, but kept putting it off...but September is approaching, and after getting told by one friend that "It's a statistical fact that everyone who moves there gets into a car accident in their first year", I decided I couldn't take it anymore and wanted to enter the wild world of the wise Vegas minds on this board. ^_^

Since I love forms, here's mine:

When are you moving? - As soon as I can, really. The expense and life of living in the heart of Los Angeles has been wearing down on me for a year now...if not Vegas, I need to go somewhere. Vegas just fits my three major criteria of being 1) Cheaper than LA, 2) Within driving distance to LA, and 3) A fun, unique place to live.

Where are you coming from? Los Angeles.

Why are you moving? I really just want out of the city, and after doing a little research here and on the web on cost of living, activities, and some native's blogs, it seemed way better than the joking "Maybe I'll go to Vegas, woo!" that it originally was. Other things considered were Portland, Seattle...but I really don't want to be that far from LA in case things don't work out.

Where will you be working? I work primarily as a programmer for an LA company, and we have a decent track record of allowing more vital employees (of which I am one) telecommute. Of course, if my company tells me I have to stay local, I won't be moving...though will start getting my resume out (I love the job...just am sick of the city).

Have you been here yet? The strip only. I'm planning to visit in September for a more "local" view of the city.


Will you buy or rent?
Rent, to start.

If renting, are you looking for an apartment, condo, townhouse, or house? How much can you spend?
At most, probably 1100 for a 2 bedroom apartment/condo/townhouse. I'd love to live somewhere with amenities that I'm happy to come home to, as opposed to the dumpy 2 bedroom I'm paying 1700 a month for now.

Would you like to be in an area with an HOA?
I honestly don't know, but would happily take advice. Does this not apply to apartments/townhomes?

Are you married or single? Do you have children?
Single, 27, on my own.

What do you want to be closest to?
Honestly, give me access to a good movie theater, restaurants that aren't ALL chains (though chains are ok), a book store, and a Best Buy, and I'm pretty happy. I have simple needs. And of course, I know fun can always be had at the strip. I am a gamer of all sorts (board, card, video games, poker, casino games), and do like to gamble some, but after a big loss (and by big, I mean like, 250-300 dollars), I tend to take a long break (I live only 10 minutes away from Hollywood Park Casino in LA, and while I keep meaning to go since I haven't been in 4 months...it's just not all that important). I'd love it if there were some game stores or clubs like that in Vegas, but I'm not sure...I know here in LA the closest ones are in the OC or Pasadena, a good 20-30 miles away from me.

Knowing this, I would love both some general Las Vegas advice, because all the advice I get from people here is to stay away, and that moving here would ruin my life, that I have an addictive personality (which is partially true, I will admit...though lately I'm more addicted to work), and that the heat/people/culture/economy/etc make Vegas one of the worst places to live in the country....I don't buy it....should I?

I'd also love some advice on my upcoming trip, as far as where to go. We're staying on the strip for some shows (I'm going with my Mom, as both a mini family reunion and for someone to tour with), but I want to go to as many decent neighborhoods as I can, and see as many off-the-strip interesting-items as possible. I already know and want to drive through Henderson and Summerlin, as they seem to be the most mentioned suburbs here. Even more specifically, if anyone had any good sources to look for apartments (CL seems a little sketchy), I'd take any recommendations, hell, even if you want to recommend a specific apartment complex (I do have two cats, so pet friendly is a must), it would be an amazing boon and if I do end up moving there, would happily buy you a drink.

That's my story...my apologies if I rambled, but I wanted to give as much detail as possible. My lurking here has introduced me to a lot of people who know Vegas better than anyone in LA...hopefully someone can help.

[dawgs63]

I'm only going to respond to a few things, as I've been here just less than a year.

Is Vegas one of the worst places to live in the country? Absolutely not. I moved from Chicago with my wife and it couldn't have been a better move. My job is 100 times better than it was back there, the weather is bearable (115 isn't too bad if you're not sitting out in the sun), the traffic - while drivers are terrible - is nearly non-existent off of I-15. There is ALWAYS something to do, if you need to get out of the house. The community I've seen thus far, is quite friendly, though you have to be a little outgoing, as people tend to keep to themselves a lot.

I too have an addictive personality and I'm rarely tempted by gambling, even though it's everywhere. I'm still taken aback by slot machines in gas stations and grocery stores, though.

Besides, if worse comes to worse, you're young enough to be able to move back to LA. Don't let the nay-sayers get to you.

[SoHoVe]

Decent jobs here can be difficult to find at the moment...that would be my only concern. I moved here 11 years ago (from Chicago) for many of the same reasons that you are considering Las Vegas. I wanted to be close to L.A (God child lives there) but wanted something more cost effective. If you can keep your current job I would say go for it!!! You can always return to L.A. if things don't work out.
Las Vegas really is a nice city to live in. As far as the people here go, if you don't play with fire you won't get burned. There is quite a bit of petty crime here but coming from L.A I would guess you have already accepted that as a reality. Other than that IF you have employment Vegas is pretty much a great place to live. We have the Strip, overall great shopping, and if you ever like to venture outdoors the outskirts of the city boast some great outdoor recreation such as Mt Charleston, Lake Mead, Red Rock, and The Valley of Fire.
I have an addictive personality too and it was ironically here in Las Vegas that I became addicted to outdoor recreaction. Life is what you make of it....ultimately its up to you.

[Southwest Native]

We too are considering moving to the Las Vegas area partly because we want a change but also want to be back in the southwest (desert climate). I have lived in a few other places including Vegas before and want to give some tips if you are interested.
1) Don’t just go once. You are 3+ hours from LV, go back several times and really dig in. Stay off the strip as most LV residents would probably tell you it is not reflective of the city. Go to a restaurant, bar, mall or “Best Buy” in the suburbs and see what the real locals are like. You will find them to be very different than the people around the casinos and all the other sketchy areas around there. When I moved there in 1995 I went back about 8 times and still was very surprised once I moved there. It has changed a lot since then.
2) If you are considering any other areas still please take the above advice if you are still considering Portland. It is nothing like what it appears in print and video. I am not going take the time to say anything derogatory about Portland but we have been here 3 ½ years now and would do just about anything to get out of here. The economy is preventing that. The rain and its impact on you life, your car, and your emotional state is far more than you can imagine. You just have to experience it. If you like Vegas you would probably like Phoenix or maybe even Tucson a lot. Cost of living is relatively low for the size of the city and there is so much to do you can’t get through it all. I lived there 12 years and still am finding things I didn’t get to do while I was there. The winters are more mild there and it (sounds weird) is more tropical there. It has however become a big crowded city but still easy compared to LA and houses there are a smokin’ deal. Once called the silicon desert (not sure if it still is) but you are bound to find a lot more IT job opportunities than in LV. Also, don’t rule out LA’s surrounding areas. If you can handle the higher cost, may want to check out the Ventura, Temecula, Saugus areas. They are outskirts but still within a short drive of LA.

Good Luck.

[swagger]

I grew up in the L.A. area and moved here about 2 1/2 years ago, for many of the same reasons, so hopefully I can provide some useful insight.

Originally Posted by TheMoonMonster

"It's a statistical fact that everyone who moves there gets into a car accident in their first year"

Not true (of course). I've driven in L.A., D.C., Philadelphia, New York City, Seattle, San Francisco and a bunch of other, smaller, places, and I have to say that Las Vegas drivers really are the worst (even worse than NYC!), though. The biggest threat is people that run red lights. There are a LOT of people that sort of try to make the yellow, but don't really even come close.... But if you're an alert driver, it's not that bad.

Originally Posted by TheMoonMonster

The expense and life of living in the heart of Los Angeles has been wearing down on me for a year now...if not Vegas, I need to go somewhere. Vegas just fits my three major criteria of being 1) Cheaper than LA, 2) Within driving distance to LA, and 3) A fun, unique place to live.

I wanted out of CA completely. I needed to be close enough to visit without getting on a plane, though, and I didn't want to live in a tiny town. That pretty much just left Las Vegas and Phoenix, and Arizona has never really had much of a draw for me. The choice was pretty simple.

Originally Posted by TheMoonMonster

Where will you be working? I work primarily as a programmer for an LA company, and we have a decent track record of allowing more vital employees (of which I am one) telecommute.

If you can keep your job, you'll do fine. My girl was able to keep her L.A. area job after moving out here, and she was with them until we started our own business.

Originally Posted by TheMoonMonster

If renting, are you looking for an apartment, condo, townhouse, or house? How much can you spend?
At most, probably 1100 for a 2 bedroom apartment/condo/townhouse.

You should be able to find that pretty easily. I'm paying a little less than that for a 3br house, and rents have come down since we signed our lease.

Originally Posted by TheMoonMonster

give me access to a good movie theater, restaurants that aren't ALL chains (though chains are ok), a book store, and a Best Buy, and I'm pretty happy.

No problem - those things are everywhere.

Originally Posted by TheMoonMonster

all the advice I get from people here is to stay away, and that moving here would ruin my life, that I have an addictive personality (which is partially true, I will admit...though lately I'm more addicted to work), and that the heat/people/culture/economy/etc make Vegas one of the worst places to live in the country....I don't buy it....should I?

Only you can determine whether or not it's the right thing to do. Just get as much info as you can to make the best informed decision possible.

Practically speaking, living here isn't all that different than living in L.A. Overall, the cost of living is lower, but you'll be surprised to find that some things are higher (be prepared for a nice jump in your car insurance premium). The summer heat is pretty unrelenting, but after your first summer you mostly get used to it. Mostly. Not having to deal with/pay state income tax is nice.

There are some differences, but there are many more similarities. You also have a huge number of L.A. transplants, so even a lot of the people are the same (that's a downside, IMHO, but some would see it as a positive).

Originally Posted by TheMoonMonster

I'd also love some advice on my upcoming trip, as far as where to go. ... I want to go to as many decent neighborhoods as I can, and see as many off-the-strip interesting-items as possible. I already know and want to drive through Henderson and Summerlin, as they seem to be the most mentioned suburbs here.

Summerlin is one of the upscale areas - rents will be higher there. Don't exclude the area, but for the price you want, you probably won't find much. Just about anywhere in the northwest is a good choice - decent neighborhoods and reasonable rents.

Originally Posted by TheMoonMonster

Even more specifically, if anyone had any good sources to look for apartments (CL seems a little sketchy), I'd take any recommendations, hell, even if you want to recommend a specific apartment complex (I do have two cats, so pet friendly is a must), it would be an amazing boon and if I do end up moving there, would happily buy you a drink.

My girl's mother lives in the Eagle Crest complex. We did the apartment hunting for her while we were looking for a house to rent, so we looked at a bunch of them even though we weren't going to be getting one for ourselves. Of the properties we looked at, it seemed to be the best value at the time. Not the cheapest, but nowhere near the most expensive, either, and the apartments are decent and the complex has some useful amenities.

Since the housing bust (which hit Las Vegas very hard), a lot of the rents have come down. I don't know how Eagle Crest compares to other complexes today, but that's what we found at the time.

[rightonbro]

I did this. I moved from L.A. (specifically, Los Feliz, then Marina del Rey) about a year and a half ago. I'm a little bit older than you, a freelance technology consultant in the Internet space, and I was tired of L.A. after living there for ten years and wanted to get out.

When are you moving? - As soon as I can, really. The expense and life of living in the heart of Los Angeles has been wearing down on me for a year now...if not Vegas, I need to go somewhere. Vegas just fits my three major criteria of being 1) Cheaper than LA, 2) Within driving distance to LA, and 3) A fun, unique place to live.

Cheaper for housing, yes. I like that I have a house that I'm paying a mortgage on that costs less than renting a 700 square foot 1-bedroom apartment. Vegas is not really that much cheaper than L.A. in the daily cost-of-living sense for things like gas and food.

I had the exact thought about driving distance to L.A. You might find that the drive to becomes a pain sometimes, but I still do it. Also, everyone from L.A. is going to want to come visit you at first, until they do the Friday night/Sunday morning drive a couple of times and get tired of it.

Last-minute flights on Southwest run about $250 or so right now. I've done day trips out there to meet with clients, and then fly back. Parking at McCarran is $12 a day and there's free wifi in the terminal, which is nice.

Where will you be working? I work primarily as a programmer for an LA company, and we have a decent track record of allowing more vital employees (of which I am one) telecommute. Of course, if my company tells me I have to stay local, I won't be moving...though will start getting my resume out (I love the job...just am sick of the city).

I would highly, highly recommend trying to telecommute from your home in L.A. before you move to see if it works out. Preferably, figure this out *before* you go through the time and cost of moving. Just don't show up at the office for a month and see what happens.

First, you've got to figure out whether working from home works for you. It sounds nice and it IS nice with one caveat - if you move to a city where you don't know anyone and you stay at home all the time, it can be pretty isolating (I know this from experience).

Second, you have to find our whether telecommuting will work for YOU, even though other people in your company do so. As you know, being "vital" as a programmer isn't necessarily just your ability to crank out code - it's being able to fit within existing processes, get along with people, get things done on time, etc. I just recently got out of a situation where a client did not know how to work with remote people, and it was making my life miserable, so I fired them. Even in our industry, sometimes just being there in person can help a lot for people who do not know how to schedule things in advance and communicate clearly. You need to find out and be 100% sure that it's going to work for both you and your employer when you are not there.

My understanding is that there isn't a lot of tech out here, so if your job doesn't work out, you are going to have a tough time finding a job here. Wages seem to be quite a bit lower compared to L.A.

Just out of curiosity, what type of programming work do you do (language & app types)?

If renting, are you looking for an apartment, condo, townhouse, or house? How much can you spend?
At most, probably 1100 for a 2 bedroom apartment/condo/townhouse. I'd love to live somewhere with amenities that I'm happy to come home to, as opposed to the dumpy 2 bedroom I'm paying 1700 a month for now.

LOL, I hear you on that. Rent first, 6 months to a year. $1100 will work for an apartment if you factor in the "move in and get one month's free" rent deals. You can probably rent a house for that out in the southwest. I rented a 3-bedroom house out there last year for $1350 for a 6-month lease. Landlord would have gone lower for longer-term leases. Your electricity bill might be higher here due to cost of running air conditioning ($100 a month for an apartment, $250 and up in the hot summer months). Water and gas are about the same as L.A.

What do you want to be closest to?
Honestly, give me access to a good movie theater, restaurants that aren't ALL chains (though chains are ok), a book store, and a Best Buy, and I'm pretty happy. I have simple needs. And of course, I know fun can always be had at the strip. I am a gamer of all sorts (board, card, video games, poker, casino games), and do like to gamble some, but after a big loss (and by big, I mean like, 250-300 dollars), I tend to take a long break (I live only 10 minutes away from Hollywood Park Casino in LA, and while I keep meaning to go since I haven't been in 4 months...it's just not all that important). I'd love it if there were some game stores or clubs like that in Vegas, but I'm not sure...I know here in LA the closest ones are in the OC or Pasadena, a good 20-30 miles away from me.

The adage that locals don't really go to the Strip is pretty true, at least for me, because traffic around is generally not so good during normal hours. If you want to gamble, there's casinos out in the 'burbs that are fine. I generally only go to the Strip when company's in town or I'm meeting people there, or just to walk around and people-watch.

Chain stores/restaurants abound. There aren't a ton of local restaurants here in that feel like L.A., but there's good food in most cuisines, and there are a lot of places open late. It's nice being able to finish a project at 11:30pm and then go grab some sushi to celebrate.

Knowing this, I would love both some general Las Vegas advice, because all the advice I get from people here is to stay away, and that moving here would ruin my life, that I have an addictive personality (which is partially true, I will admit...though lately I'm more addicted to work), and that the heat/people/culture/economy/etc make Vegas one of the worst places to live in the country....I don't buy it....should I?

Gambling - Unless you consistently win, you are probably going to lose money significantly more often than you win (I also know this from experience), so be prepared for that. Living here is not like getting into town from L.A. for the weekend, winning a few hundred bucks at the tables, and saying "Hey, Vegas is great!" and going home. If you have an addictive personality, you might find yourself going more often because it's so readily available. However, if you can afford to blow the money, who cares?

Heat - Air conditioning solves this.

Culture - Beyond the Strip, there's not much.

Economy - If you're insulated from the recession, this doesn't make a difference unless you become un-insulated.

I'd also love some advice on my upcoming trip, as far as where to go. We're staying on the strip for some shows (I'm going with my Mom, as both a mini family reunion and for someone to tour with), but I want to go to as many decent neighborhoods as I can, and see as many off-the-strip interesting-items as possible. I already know and want to drive through Henderson and Summerlin, as they seem to be the most mentioned suburbs here.

That sounds about right. I looked at rental places by checking rent.com (ugh), CL, and driving around. You should also stop into a couple of apartment complexes' rental offices and check things out.

People will warn you about renting from a private landlord, as they may be upside-down on their house/condo. If they get foreclosed on, it's something along the lines of having to get your stuff out within 24 hours, otherwise it gets taken, even if you are a renter.

That's my story...my apologies if I rambled, but I wanted to give as much detail as possible. My lurking here has introduced me to a lot of people who know Vegas better than anyone in LA...hopefully someone can help.

My handyman told me that people either love or hate this city - if people make it out here for 3 years, they'll love it. There's good and bad about this town compared to L.A. Verdict's still out for me. Hope this helps!

[new2lv]

I left my hometown of L.A. almost 10 years ago and never looked back. Unless you work in showbiz, what's the point? L.A. is expensive, smoggy, traffic-plagued, and filled with attitude. Recently I turned my back on California entirely and so far Vegas has been great (it's only been a few months). The people I interact with are extremely friendly, the drivers no better or worse than anywhere in SoCal, and the heat you get used to real quick. As for crime, I live in the western area near Summerlin, and I feel quite safe and comfortable here.

Speaking of Summerlin, if your budget permits, you might want to consider moving there. They have all the big box stores, lots of restaurants (chains and independents), and even a few casinos (Red Rock, Rampart, Suncoast). Getting to The Strip takes 10mins on I-95, although if you're like me, you'll find yourself not wanting to bother with The Strip once you're here.

[TheMoonMonster]

My apologies for the long delay in response - thanks again for everyone's replies (I can't believe I didn't get a "Yes, it is the worst mistake." troll in there!). I just wanted to answer a few of your questions, and ask some more of my own, since my initial excursion there is in a week and a half.

As far as moving to the outskirts of LA, I definitely want to avoid that at all costs - like swagger said, I'd love to be out of California altogether. Not to mention that the idea of a 40-50 mile commute to work doesn't sound so great.

Swagger - Just out of curiosity, what part of LV are you in?

That question really applies to everyone who responded, to be honest...when I go, I'd love to see which neighborhoods are best to tour for someone in my situation. I'd prefer to live somewhere relatively normal (I live near Santa Monica now, which is perfectly nice if expensive...nothing that spectacular though), not necessarily upscale. The mantra I read on this site is Summerlin and Henderson, but are there any other areas I should look at that aren't as obvious?

rightonbro - While I can't just not show up, it's often a joke around the office how I tend to be more productive on my sick days than when I'm actually in the office. It's survey programming and data mining (I work at an MR firm), of which I started a mini-division in the company, that now has 4 people in it, of which I am by far the most knowledgeable as to our systems. Given that my company has allowed remote employees who are less senior and more replaceable, I feel confident. Of course, if they say no, then I'll put off moving anywhere till I find a new job, sad but true in this economy.

The thought of isolation is, I admit, pretty daunting, since I'm definitely more of a homebody, though a lot of that is the hassle and expense of doing anything here in LA (I fantasize of a world where parking is free).

I noticed you "ughed" rent.com...are there any other means you'd recommend? While I'm not going to be renting anything on this first trip out, I would love to tour some places just to get a feel for it, and so would love any thoughts on the best way to find things aside from going to neighborhoods and driving around.

As for gambling, I'm mostly a poker player, which actually seems to be bigger in LA (I'm a 10 minute drive from one of the bigger casinos here). Either way, one bad session can keep me away for months, so I'm not too concerned.

Of course, any more thoughts on any of my issues/questions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again!

[VLWH]

Originally Posted by TheMoonMonster

My apologies for the long delay in response - thanks again for everyone's replies (I can't believe I didn't get a "Yes, it is the worst mistake." troll in there!). I just wanted to answer a few of your questions, and ask some more of my own, since my initial excursion there is in a week and a half.

As far as moving to the outskirts of LA, I definitely want to avoid that at all costs - like swagger said, I'd love to be out of California altogether. Not to mention that the idea of a 40-50 mile commute to work doesn't sound so great.

Swagger - Just out of curiosity, what part of LV are you in?

That question really applies to everyone who responded, to be honest...when I go, I'd love to see which neighborhoods are best to tour for someone in my situation. I'd prefer to live somewhere relatively normal (I live near Santa Monica now, which is perfectly nice if expensive...nothing that spectacular though), not necessarily upscale. The mantra I read on this site is Summerlin and Henderson, but are there any other areas I should look at that aren't as obvious?

rightonbro - While I can't just not show up, it's often a joke around the office how I tend to be more productive on my sick days than when I'm actually in the office. It's survey programming and data mining (I work at an MR firm), of which I started a mini-division in the company, that now has 4 people in it, of which I am by far the most knowledgeable as to our systems. Given that my company has allowed remote employees who are less senior and more replaceable, I feel confident. Of course, if they say no, then I'll put off moving anywhere till I find a new job, sad but true in this economy.

The thought of isolation is, I admit, pretty daunting, since I'm definitely more of a homebody, though a lot of that is the hassle and expense of doing anything here in LA (I fantasize of a world where parking is free).

I noticed you "ughed" rent.com...are there any other means you'd recommend? While I'm not going to be renting anything on this first trip out, I would love to tour some places just to get a feel for it, and so would love any thoughts on the best way to find things aside from going to neighborhoods and driving around.

As for gambling, I'm mostly a poker player, which actually seems to be bigger in LA (I'm a 10 minute drive from one of the bigger casinos here). Either way, one bad session can keep me away for months, so I'm not too concerned.

Of course, any more thoughts on any of my issues/questions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again!

As long as you can keep your job than there is no reason to not move, if that's what you want. Heck, if you can make the same in LA and move to Vegas than even better. Just triple check and make sure you can keep your current job.

[swagger]

I live near the intersection of Cheyenne & Rainbow in the northwest. The first house we rented was near Decatur and Horse, also in the northwest, but close to north-central, right on the edge of the developed portion of the valley. We really liked that first house - it was a great newer house in a really good neighborhood. It was foreclosed, though... Be careful who you rent from if you rent a house - you could find yourself on the street without any notice. We were lucky in that we had a few months notice, but I've heard of people who get a knock on the door and get 20 minutes to vacate...