Homeowners associations? Oil heat? I'm so out of my element (Allentown: 2014, apartment)

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by dakotabluebaby

Do you think overall coal would be much cheaper to heat for the winter?

Absolutely especially if you don't have access to natural gas, it can add up too thousands each year. If they have a boiler like the one depicted above it's really no different than any heat except you need to put coal in one end and take the ashes out of the other. Usually a few minutes job every day or two in the middle of winter.

The average 2000 sq ft. home in this area might use 4 to 5 ton of coal. That's going to be about $1000-$1100 for 5 ton delivered in bulk, most houses are going to have a coal bin in the basement. Oil at $3.50/gallon is going to be $3,460, electric at 11 cents per kWh is going to be $3,094

[toobusytoday]

thecoalman, I don't know anyone that heats with coal. I would guess the price would be higher if you have to have it delivered a distance. Are there people in my area that even deliver coal? I've heard more people talk about solar and geothermal powered houses than coal heated ones. You would still have to deal with electric for A/C too, wouldn't you?

[thecoalman]

I don't know where you live but delivery in the Lehigh Valley area should be a given. Lehigh Anthracite which is one of the major producers is right there in Tamaqua and there is few others in that area. It comes by high lift truck and you can be put just about anywhere.





That's one of my old trucks I just sold. I sold the lift and it came with a truck. You should be able to get delivery anywhere in NEPA, I used to deliver in about 6 counties going up to the NY border, I never got down towards Lehigh becsue it was saturated. If you are out of the way get it in the Summer, I used to go all summer long to these far away places. Delivery services get spotty once you are out of the eastern PA area but I know they have some delivery services going all the way up to Maine. If you can't get bulk delivery bagged is available just about anywhere but it's going to cost you some more.



Geothermal is a good investment but it's a lot of capital up front. Same thing with solar but I wouldn't call it a good investment in the grand scheme of things becsue of the heavy subsidies and you really can't heat with it unless you are using it to run a geothermal or air sourced heat pump. A lot of people that are using those units are supplementing with coal or something else. With geothermal as your heat demand increases so does the size required for the system, you can put in smaller system and take the edge off with coal during the coldest days. Same thing with the air sourced heat pumps and they have the issue of becoming more costly to operate as the temperature drops.


Yes, you would have to deal with AC, I don't need it. We have a very large window unit and might use it for a week out of the year. Didn't even put it in this year and I'm glad I didn't becsue there might of been like 2 days we would have used it. I live on top of mountain so it's about 5 to 10 degrees colder and there is almost always a nice breeze.

[toobusytoday]

I can see why coal would work for some people, but I was thinking of the OP and if she actually moves to the Lehigh Valley, not NEPA. We have solar panels, which make a tremendous difference in these full sun months. And like you said, this summer was spectacular. We haven't put our a/c on at all and for the first time had no electric bill at all this month! However, it will be a few more years until we get back the cost of the investment.

I can understand not crossing off a coal heated house, but those are going to be few and far between, aren't they? I have to say, that if it wasn't delivered, no way would we get bagged - that hassle of that would negate everything else. We had houses with wood only heat for several years when we lived in upstate NY and while I loved the bone-warming heat, the hassle of chopping wood and tending the stoves was a PIA.

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by toobusytoday

I can see why coal would work for some people, but I was thinking of the OP and if she actually moves to the Lehigh Valley, not NEPA.

When I say NEPA I mean that area as well, there is more mining and coal activity in that area than up here. You have two major anthracite coal fields, there is one in the Wyoming Valley/Scranton and one centered on the Pottsville area. There is other minor ones like around Hazleton. They are actually distinctive and have slightly different burning characteristics.

I can understand not crossing off a coal heated house, but those are going to be few and far between, aren't they?

I would imagine there isn't going to be many of them but they were all coal heat at some point in time. Most would have switched to oil before the 70's. Part of the issue here is people don't understand how easy it is especially compared to something like wood. Wood and pellets are both more expensive and certainly much more work with the wood. Unlike wood or pellets it's a very viable whole house heating solution even for close urban enviroment. If you don't have access to natural gas coal is the next best thing and if the little bit of work doesn't bother you it's the best thing as far as cost.

I have to say, that if it wasn't delivered, no way would we get bagged - that hassle of that would negate everything else. We had houses with wood only heat for several years when we lived in upstate NY and while I loved the bone-warming heat, the hassle of chopping wood and tending the stoves was a PIA.

Compared to wood even a hand fired stove is much easier to operate, there is a twelve hour cycle of loading it. You want to avoid the bag coal simply becsue it cost a lot more especially in this area, you might pay $100 more per ton compared to bulk delivered into your basement. Some people that are a little lazy prefer it, you can get it delivered by the pallet. If you are using a hopper fed stove it's easier to handle becsue you just drop the bag in the hopper, cut it with a knife and pull the bag out.

For us we have auger fed boiler like the one I posted in the video. We have 55 gallon drum in the coal bin and that holds about 400 pounds of coal. You just have to shovel it in there every two or three days during the coldest days of winter. We use ours for hot water so it runs all year, might have to fill it up every 2 or 3 weeks this time of year.

[thecoalman]

One other thing, not only are you buying US made you are buying local. The fuel of course is local and EFM and Keystoker two of the larger manufacturers for boilers and stoves are right near Pottsville. Nearly every other company involved in this industry are located in eastern PA.

[dakotabluebaby]

The Coalman Is converting expensive? It sounds worth, but I'm just curious now that I'm learning about it. Oil seems to just be getting more and more expensive overall.

I am grateful for your experience.

[mrknowitall526]

Originally Posted by dakotabluebaby

The Coalman Is converting expensive? It sounds worth, but I'm just curious now that I'm learning about it. Oil seems to just be getting more and more expensive overall.

I am grateful for your experience.

Recent reports have said that the price of oil will be coming down this winter, possibly below $3 a gallon - which it hasn't been in years!

Unless you go to Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton/Lower Macungie/Northampton you won't get natural gas unless you use propane. There might be a few other places that have natural gas in the area, but none that come to mind. (possibly Emmaus). Because the LV is a group of smaller boroughs and suburbs, it's not really that prevalent.

I would think that your cost of living would be much lower in the LV than the Philly area, so I wouldn't be super concerned with heating costs.

If you do get a place with oil, look at Countryside Fuel for getting oil. They're based way out somewhere in Berks County, but deliver to the Valley two times a week. They are by far the cheapest around ... by at least 30-40 cents. Consistently.

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by mrknowitall526

Recent reports have said that the price of oil will be coming down this winter, possibly below $3 a gallon - which it hasn't been in years!

Lehigh Fuels is advertising $2.769, we paid $3.779 from them in February.

A standard 275 gallons heating oil tank with a boiler with a 13% efficiency loss deliver 10 megawatt hours of energy. If oil is $2.769 per gallon it will take $2.769 * 275 gallons = $761.48 to fill the tank completely. So oil costs you $76.15 per mWh.

Now electricity prices vary with your generation plan and your area, but they are usually $120 per megawatt hour (12 cents per kWh). So right now energy from oil is substantially cheaper than energy from electricity.

So if you pay $4/gallon energy from oil is $110 per megawatt. About a year ago electricity was close to $110 per megawatt.

Natural gas is much cheaper than either oil or electric. Coal bricks are cheaper than natural gas.

To get the equivalent price in wood pellets by the ton multiply oil per gallon by 115. So $2.769 *115= $318 per ton of wood pellets. Wood pellets are usually $220-$250 per ton, so wood pellets are a cheaper if far bulkier fuel source than oil.

[toobusytoday]

If you can afford the investment, and your house is situated right, solar is a wonderful option too. Our all electric house had incredibly low electric bills this spring, summer and fall. The highest bill was about $12. We had one month that was zero!

Moving from Delaware to Lehigh County, we found the electric rates in general to be much lower as we switched from PECO to PPL. In Delaware county we heated with oil but our electric bill was still higher there than our all electric house here - and that was before we got our solar panels.