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Maybe his wife is a quiet, mousey type. Remember, opposites attract!
But seriously, if they did get snotty and rude with the cop, I can see how they ended up with tickets and had to take their "lumps."
Even if the women were on the mellow side -- the cop doesn't know them. They could have offered up some excuse 'but I live right here' which the cop has heard how many times from people who (like them) are trespassing on the beach after closing. The women wouldn't know that the cop has heard it umpteen times and the cop wouldn't know that the woman is actually a resident if it was her first night there. What were the chances of her having a NYS ID when she just moved there from NJ?
We're only getting one side of the story filtered through the husband who was not present and who clearly harbors animosity for anyone whose job it is to enforce the law.
Still not answering the question. Would the woman whose property backs up to the beach have sought the police should a bunch of rowdies be hanging out behind her house after hours out of concern for her safety?
I don't know what other people would do. You asked what I would do.
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Would you suggest anarchy instead? Everyone do whatever they wish and to hell with the laws put into place to give our society some set of guidelines in order to allow it to function in an orderly fashion?
We could use a big dose of anarchy, yes. Uhoh, imagine if you couldn't control the behavior of all people. I can see it now. There'd be people sitting on the beach at all hours of the night, for free at that. People would be finishing their basements willy nilly and having unlicensed dogs. It would be chaos. Restaurants serving transfats and old ladies smoking in the park. It would be tough, but hopefully we'd survive.
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Isn't your (or in this case, your wife's) complacency in essence promoting the facism you denounce so vociferously on C-D?
Unfortunately local courts don't care much for philosophical arguments. But maybe we'll go to court.
Last edited by daveoliva; 08-05-2011 at 03:14 PM..
I don't know what other people would do. You asked what I would do.
I asked what she would do. The only thing I asked you to do was to answer the question based on your knowledge of this person.
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We could use a big dose of anarchy, yes. Uhoh, imagine if you couldn't control the behavior of all people.
Sort of what happens during soccer and hockey riots, black out looting and race riots. grown adults reduced to behaving like impetuous children. What if someone decided to violate your wife -- after all, in a perfect anarchy, there would be no laws against rape. (As a female I really hate using that analogy, but it is possible where there is no law.)
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Unfortunately local courts don't care much for philosophical arguments. But maybe we'll go to court.
Our 'Fascist' nation was founded on philosophical arguments.
Why not try to bring about change?
There are probably many other people who would enjoy being able to utilize the beach after 6 PM. Is it possible that enough of them brought together might be able to cause the City of LB to open a certain section of beach for evening enjoyment?
*One problem I can see is that LB has had a spate of drownings each year while Life guards are on duty. At night, it would be almost impossible to monior the surf. That might be the reason for the 6 PM closure.
I asked what she would do. The only thing I asked you to do was to answer the question based on your knowledge of this person.
I don't know her well enough to answer that.
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Sort of what happens during soccer and hockey riots, black out looting and race riots. grown adults reduced to behaving like impetuous children. What if someone decided to violate your wife -- after all, in a perfect anarchy, there would be no laws against rape. (As a female I really hate using that analogy, but it is possible where there is no law.)
You're talking about total chaos, which is not the same as anarchy. By definition anarchy means a lack of rulers, or government. Rapists, murderers, thieves, etc are clearly not all that deterred by the law, since that type of thing happens all the time. The law simply allows our system to prosecute them in a "fair" way.
I'm not, and I doubt very many people would, advocate people running wild and hurting people. A lack of nonsensical regulations and revenue generating laws will not reduce civilization to ashes. After all, your own example shows that rioting has nothing to do with law, as it's obviously illegal to burn cars in the street after your team loses, yet it happens anyway.
It's illegal to sit on the beach after a certain time, yet it happens anyway. The difference is one thing is morally wrong (rioting and destruction) and the other isn't. Our insane system of laws has, nationwide, literally tens of thousands of laws and regulations that regulate EVERY SINGLE aspect of life and cause much unnecessary stress for otherwise good people for the sake of A) bringing money into the municipality and B) imposing the values of control freaks on everyone else. There are so many laws (federal, state, local) that literally almost every person in the country is violating one or another at some time.
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Our 'Fascist' nation was founded on philosophical arguments.
Our (now) fascist nation was indeed founded on philosophical arguments. Almost all of them argued that people need to LEFT THE HELL ALONE to do as they please without government harassment. Could you imagine telling Thomas Jeffereson he'd be fined for sitting on the beach at night. Hahahaha. Gimmie a break. We're a long way from the arguments that founded this country. We're well into actual fascism, by any definition of fascism. The problem is it's very difficult to see that because we are immersed in it (like the fish in water analogy, he doesn't even notice the water because it's everywhere).
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Why not try to bring about change?
There are probably many other people who would enjoy being able to utilize the beach after 6 PM. Is it possible that enough of them brought together might be able to cause the City of LB to open a certain section of beach for evening enjoyment?
If I thought rational argument would persuade a judge I might give it a shot. I still might.
Now, wait a minute, they're not robotic enforcers? No, don't encourage on the spot reasoning and decisions, it may get dangerous out there.
If you go back and read what I wrote, I said (boldface for your clarification):
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Originally Posted by Yzette
2. NEVER ask a cop to not do what the cop says he or she is going to do, or ask him or her to grant you any favors. That is asking him or her to break the law for you, something that when you get right down to it, the cop is forbidden to do.
In other words, if the cop has already said that he or she is going to write you a ticket, the cop has already used his or her "spot reasoning" to decide you are going to be punished for breaking the law as the law allows. Asking the cop not to write it is only going to make your situation worse. You may feel you are entitled to question a cop's reasoning, but when you get right down to it, the law is the only reason a cop needs.
So is Long Island fascist like the OP said or communist like lubby said?
Perhaps "authoritarian" is the most appropriate word for the sentiment expressed in the OP. However, "fascism" would be more appropriate than "communism," as communism in its purest form seeks a classless and stateless society. If one views the state as its own entity (and not of the people) and the police an extension thereof, "fascism" is the word to use.
So is Long Island fascist like the OP said or communist like lubby said?
Funny thing is there's not too much of a difference. Theoretically, yes, there are major differences in ideology. In practice they are both simply excuses for totalitarian, or as Yzette stated, authoritarian, control, as whatever group of sociopaths is in power simply uses the ideology for it's own means, and so the actions never match the philosophy. Pathocracy, a term coined by Soviet researcher Andrew M. Lobaczewski in his book Political Ponerology. What it means is that sociopaths have gradually come into power and corrupted to the core the philosophy they claim to support, whatever ideology that happens to be. So while they speak in familiar terms (freedom, liberty, etc) these words mean nothing to them, and sometimes have different meanings to the inner core of sociopaths in power (it's obvious that people like Lenin, Stalin, Mao etc were sociopaths and veered a great deal from the actual core of their nations ideologies. What's less obvious is that US leaders are also sociopaths and so although they speak of freedom, it's spoken with a "forked tongue".) The major problem with a long term pathocracy is that it filters down to all levels of society and after a while you end up with sociopaths, and other "deviant" types in just about ALL positions of power.
Last edited by daveoliva; 08-05-2011 at 04:23 PM..
Two cops I see. Pat each other on the back fellas. Keep up the good work arresting reporters and ticketing people for using public parks.
Thanks for the compliment mr vulva but The Police on Long Island don't make enough to keep people like you in line. Besides I couldn't handle the pay cut. My COLA alone keeps me happy.
But I will tell you that I have a nice car and a bit of a lead foot that I enjoy and whenever I come into contact with our finest I smile, keep a positive attitude and apologize....whether or not I am written. I understood the consequences as I see the speedometer rise.
One important value you learn when you grow up in a decent society by good hard working parents is to take responsibility for your actions and respect the law.
I will confide that being a combat veteran usually helps...probably because it helps to identify ourselves as one of the good guys.
watch out for black helicopters my anarchist friend
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