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What you are seeing is less subsidization. That's all. NY's greed and incompetence has been exposed.
If you were a renter you wouldn't get the property tax deduction. Isn't that discriminatory?
SALT isn't removed, just reduced.
As I said before, if you are making $150K a year and able to deduct $30K for SALT, plus a bunch for mortgage interest you would be paying zero to negative federal taxes. As the Democrats are fond of saying, everyone needs to pay their fair share. As a bonus, everyone's marginal rates go down.
2) NY spends more in instructor salary + benefits per student than 40 states spend per pupil OVERALL (which also includes general admin, student support, etc.). NY spends 15% more per student than the next state.
How is this "desirable"? NY is ranked ninth as far as school quality.
Where this all hurts is that NY is clearly getting shafted, and all in a single year. What should have happened was that SALT reductions were phased in over say 5 years to help soften the blow, perhaps capping first at say $30K and then reducing it $5K a year, and also phasing in the marginal rate reductions.
People on Long Island who believe it's OK to pay $25K in annual taxes and $600K for a 50 year old hi-ranch are the insane ones. Travel around the country and you'll see how much more you get for your money. Many of those places are also "desirable".
The population density, traffic, and real estate values tell me it is desireable compared to most of the nation. $600k forva 50 year old high ranch, as you point out, tells me LI is desireable.
1) whatever your opinion on the high rate of NY/LI taxes, this change in the tax law amounts to double taxation. How can you be ok with this? I get that some of you like that it punishes high tax areas and you feel it is deserved. With this law, we are paying federal taxes on some of the tax money we send to NY and local government.
2) desireable areas will never have low taxes. Desireable areas have high real estate value...this makes services (salaries) cost more as the workers have to live here. Now, some % of our local taxes are due to corruption and waste. We can debate what %. But LI will never have low taxes.
Lots of complainers but no one bothers to actually look at a public union contract or agency budget. They are public (FOILable) records. They are as lean as can be. In fact, any unforeseen matter results in a bond issue (ie, borrowing, ie, another tax)! The average CSEA salary is $32k-$72k. Not exactly the root cause of our tax burden.
Facts are, yes we pay too much but we also get lots of services no one wants to give up. We have super low crime and solid schools. We pay our teachers and cops and admins too much because that translates directly to the appearance of affluence and keeps home prices inflated. Our politicians all measure themselves by jobs so a strong public union sector doesn't bother them and is also why we toss out IDA (PILOT) money like it grows on trees. Job ponzi is our thing.
The idea we don't support (subsidize) welfare red states is ridiculous on its face. Let's level that playing field right now and watch all of the high tax blue states prosperity grow like on steroids while red states go immediately bankrupt. Watch how fast FL and TX implement an income tax after THAT!! I'd rather pay my kid's teacher too much than subsidize some evangelical ding dongs who will use my support to end Roe v Wade. Try getting eldercare services in FL vs NY and see what a red state with no income tax gets you for services. The tax plan is a ham handed direct fleecing of blue state taxpayers to prop up votes for the GOP in the welfare red states and ease the debt sting of the corporate welfare piece of the plan.
Last edited by monstermagnet; 01-10-2019 at 11:47 AM..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isles08
Two points here...
1) whatever your opinion on the high rate of NY/LI taxes, this change in the tax law amounts to double taxation. How can you be ok with this? I get that some of you like that it punishes high tax areas and you feel it is deserved. With this law, we are paying federal taxes on some of the tax money we send to NY and local government.
2) desireable areas will never have low taxes. Desireable areas have high real estate value...this makes services (salaries) cost more as the workers have to live here. Now, some % of our local taxes are due to corruption and waste. We can debate what %. But LI will never have low taxes.
No its not double taxation it just shows how abusive the tax burden is place on you by your state. If a resident is a home owner and doesn't have kids isn't he getting screwed because he cant take those deductions? Why should those who choose to procreate get to take different deductions than his maybe what his neighbor takes. If a homeowner is single and doesn't have enough to itemize he is taking standard deduction anyway, isn't he being treated unfairly?
Look past the 50 mile limit of NYC and you will find plenty of desirable areas with a great QOL, great schools and a tax burden that doesn't give you a coronary. If you really believe that your the only "desirable" area then you have been drinking the Kool Aid too long,,,
Lots of complainers but no one bothers to actually look at a public union contract or agency budget. They are public (FOILable) records. They are as lean as can be. In fact, any unforeseen matter results in a bond issue (ie, borrowing, ie, another tax)! The average CSEA salary is $32k-$72k. Not exactly the root cause of our tax burden.
Facts are, yes we pay too much but we also get lots of services no one wants to give up. We have super low crime and solid schools. We pay our teachers and cops and admins too much because that translates directly to the appearance of affluence and keeps home prices inflated. Our politicians all measure themselves by jobs so a strong public union sector doesn't bother them and is also why we toss out IDA (PILOT) money like it grows on trees. Job ponzi is our thing.
The idea we don't support (subsidize) welfare red states is ridiculous on its face. Let's level that playing field right now and watch all of the high tax blue states prosperity grow like on steroids while red states go immediately bankrupt. I'd rather pay my kid's teacher too much than subsidize some evangelical ding dongs who will use my support to end Roe v Wade. Try getting eldercare services in FL vs NY and see what a red state with no income tax gets you for services. The tax plan is a ham handed direct fleecing of blue state taxpayers to prop up votes for the GOP in the welfare red states and ease the debt sting of the corporate welfare piece of the plan.
Agreed. My point was that desireable, high value areas will never have low taxes...even if waste/corruption (perceived or real) were to be eliminated.
Side note - this causes folks to incorrectly associate Democrats with high taxes. These desireable areas tend to have the most competitive jobs and attract the most intelligent, educated people. Think the technology centers of CA, NYC, to a lesser extent LI, other metro areas etc. These people tend to lean more liberal. Hence we get Democrats running these higher tax areas. But they are not high tax because of Democrats. They are high tax because they are desireable areas with high values. They are Drmocrat leaning because they are populated by intelligent people.
Lots of complainers but no one bothers to actually look at a public union contract or agency budget. They are public (FOILable) records. They are as lean as can be. In fact, any unforeseen matter results in a bond issue (ie, borrowing, ie, another tax)! The average CSEA salary is $32k-$72k. Not exactly the root cause of our tax burden.
Facts are, yes we pay too much but we also get lots of services no one wants to give up. We have super low crime and solid schools. We pay our teachers and cops and admins too much because that translates directly to the appearance of affluence and keeps home prices inflated. Our politicians all measure themselves by jobs so a strong public union sector doesn't bother them and is also why we toss out IDA (PILOT) money like it grows on trees. Job ponzi is our thing.
The idea we don't support (subsidize) welfare red states is ridiculous on its face. Let's level that playing field right now and watch all of the high tax blue states prosperity grow like on steroids while red states go immediately bankrupt. I'd rather pay my kid's teacher too much than subsidize some evangelical ding dongs who will use my support to end Roe v Wade. Try getting eldercare services in FL vs NY and see what a red state with no income tax gets you for services. The tax plan is a ham handed direct fleecing of blue state taxpayers to prop up votes for the GOP in the welfare red states and ease the debt sting of the corporate welfare piece of the plan.
Have you ever lived off of LI? Outside NY? In a red state?
You'd be very surprised how good schools, policing and healthcare can be outside of LI. Maybe not consistently so, but when you consider how lousy Hempstead is and yet they spend $22K+ per pupil something is wrong.
And the "I'd rather pay my kid's teacher too much than..." sounds a lot like "it's for the children". Paying too much is still paying too much.
At least you admit that paying everyone too much is just for keeping up appearances and property values.
Density is due to NYC proximity and historic reasons.
Traffic is due to density.
Real estate values are due to density, traffic and NYC proximity, plus lack of buildable space within a reasonable commute.
The same argument could be made about Silicon Valley.
Density means it is desireable! Even if that desireability is due to proximity to NYC and historical reasons.
Desireability means people want to live here and are willing to pay a lot..regardess of their reasons. Period. If you don't agree with those reasons or don't personally find the area desireable that does not make the area undesireable.
Agreed. My point was that desireable, high value areas will never have low taxes...even if waste/corruption (perceived or real) were to be eliminated.
Side note - this causes folks to associate Democrats with high taxes. These desireable areas tend to have the most competitive jobs and attract the most intelligent, educated people. Think the technology centers of CA, NYC, to a lesser extent LI, other metro areas etc. These people tend to mean more liberal. Hence we get Democrats running these higher tax areas. But they are not high tax because of Democrats. They are high tax because they are desireable areas with high values. They are Drmocrat leaning because they are populated by intelligent people.
"They are Democrat leaning because they are populated by intelligent people".
Or, because they are urban areas with a large youth population, who are idealistic yet not experienced. As a general rule people tend to trend more conservative as they age.
You might argue that uneducated people in the South vote Republican because they are unintelligent. These same people voted Democrat before the big shift in the 60's.
Personally, I'm pleased to see that SALT is being limited. And yes, I have been affected by it, but not to the same degree as others who bought into LI's hamster wheel.
Density means it is desireable! Even if that desireability is due to proximity to NYC and historical reasons.
Desireability means people want to live here and are willing to pay a lot..regardess of their reasons. Period. If you don't agree with those reasons or don't personally find the area desireable that does not make the area undesireable.
I don't think you get it.
Density is there because of traffic and poor public transportation options.
If we had rapid rail such as many European and Asian countries, you could have people living "an hour" outside of NYC - in PA. There would be no need to jam people in Nassau County because they don't want to commute more than an hour.
Do people really want to pay as much as they do for a patch of grass in a fixer-upper house near a train station? No, but they have to if they want to escape NYC.
"They are Democrat leaning because they are populated by intelligent people".
Or, because they are urban areas with a large youth population, who are idealistic yet not experienced. As a general rule people tend to trend more conservative as they age.
You might argue that uneducated people in the South vote Republican because they are unintelligent. These same people voted Democrat before the big shift in the 60's.
Personally, I'm pleased to see that SALT is being limited. And yes, I have been affected by it, but not to the same degree as others who bought into LI's hamster wheel.
They voted Democrat until the 60s because the parties changed. Up until then you had 2 wings of the party...the southern Democrats were much like Trump's party of today.
You're pleased to see double taxation?
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