Non-Catholic going to Catholic School (Centereach, Lake Grove: middle schools, income, property taxes)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I agree with nancy about the teacher qualifications too - for a Catholic school only basic educational requirement of teacher certification must be met. For public school teachers must have a master's and pursue continuing education. And no, I don't buy that public school kids are less prepared for Catholic HS. My sister taught in a Catholic school until this year and she cannot believe how much more the public school offers. UNless I was really looking for a faith based education OR lived in a truly ccrappy school district I wouldn't consider Catholic school.
FInally you can't compare test scores of private and public schools - private schools take (and keep) who they want. Public school has to take everyone including special ed.
I would like to know exactly where you and Nancy get your "facts" from. I teach in a private catholic school and it is REQUIRED that we have the same NYS certifications as public school teachers. NYS Dept. of Ed. also REQUIRES you to get your Masters degree within 5 years (which I already have with 2 certifications in Elementary Ed. and Special Ed.) in order to advance your initial certification (which is only valid for 5 years) to a permanent certification.
And you can't compare test scores because private schools are not required to COVER the same tests like public schools are. That doesn't mean they don't take exams, which the school has to pay for to get from the State and other testing companies. I went to public school my whole life and worked as a teacher assistant a in public school for 2 years while working on my certification and I have been teaching in private school for 2 years now and I plan on sending my kids to catholic school. Public school, especially on Long Island, does nothing more than teach to ALL the tests. If I have you practice old state exams five days a week for several months, then yeah you will do well. That's not a good education, it's a free education provided by the state, who expects schools to play by their rules.
"All they seem to care about is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and how many "mandatory donations" they can force you to make and who can sell the most candy or junk from the catalogs. The "classism" and "materialism" by the students was disgraceful.
The school will tell you how wonderful it is, how great the students are, how well they do, etc.... Okay, if that's the case, then why is it that Catholic schools NEVER publish the results of the schools NYS test scores??? If I were an administrator and my students were so above average and doing so wonderfully, I would be shouting it from the rooftops and making sure those test scores were published wherever possible so I can increase enrollment. The fact that they hide the test scores speaks volumes. The fact that Catholic school enrollment is down speaks volumes."
Catholic schools ask for tuition to pay their teachers, as taxpayers do not pay our salaires. Since teachers are required to have the same certification standards met in NYS as public school teachers, tuition has gotten higher over to years to compete with public school salaries, while we still make far less. This can also contribute to why enrollment has gone down over the years. Most people in NYS, especially on Long Island, can't afford to pay tuition on top of $10K in home taxes (especially during the recession), even though they would prefer to send their children to private schools.
Private schools aren't required to give the same exact tests as public schools and since they do not receive taxpayer money to pay for those exams, they are not required to publish the tests they do buy and give to students for academic assessment. I am sure, however, if you asked for information when inquiring about a specific school, it would be provided to you.
Figaro, your individual school may demand NYS certification, but there is no law requiring it. I know of private school teachers who are not, and could not be, NYS certified.
You don't take state money, you don't have to play by state rules. That's how it works.
Catholic schools ask for tuition to pay their teachers, as taxpayers do not pay our salaires.
Catholic schools do get some funding from the state. It's not a lot, but they do get some mone. Additionally, the amount of tuition, donations, etc they demand is outrageous in comparison to what they're giving.
Quote:
Since teachers are required to have the same certification standards met in NYS as public school teachers
Catholic and private school teachers are NOT required to be certified.
Quote:
Private schools aren't required to give the same exact tests as public schools and since they do not receive taxpayer money to pay for those exams, they are not required to publish the tests
No. As of this year, I believe ALL schools (including Catholic) are required to give the NYS tests. I know in the past, these tests weren't required but I'm pretty sure they are now.
Also, if the Catholic schools are providing such a superior education, why not publish the results???? I'll say it again, if I was running a school where enrollment was down and my students were doing so great on statewide assessments, I would make sure the results were published along with every other school each year so people could see how great the school is and want to enroll their kids there.
Quote:
I am sure, however, if you asked for information when inquiring about a specific school, it would be provided to you.
No.... they do whatever they can to NOT give you the actual test scores. They'll give you some statement like "our school always scores in the top on NYS assessments" or something like that, but they will not provide you with actual test scores on the NYS tests. Sure, they'll give you your child's "IOWAs" test results, etc but never the NYS assessment results.
Yes, the catholic schools do get some funding, but it is not going into the hands of the administrators, not going into the huge salaries that the public schools have.
Catholic schools do without because they concentrate on educating the children, teaching them respect, teaching them how to learn and how to study.
Our catholic school does give the scores on the nys assessement along with the iowa scores.
Ok, if I am paying for Catholic school, how come I cannot take a credit on my outrageous taxes.
My mom and three of my friends teach in different Catholic schools and they will not hire anybody not certified in education. Any Catholic School I know of as well as the Diocese of Rockville Center schools demand certification for any classroom teacher (aside from aides).
I have never heard of uncertified teachers in a catholic school, especially since they need to post these results of certification with the state (YES they do...and it's public knowledge that parents can request.)
A masters Degree is not mandatory in all catholic schools, but it's not mandatory in public schools either. One must receive it in public and private school within 3-6 years of being hired. I teach in a public high school and not every teacher has their masters yet...but they are going for it.
I think you are confusing a Masters with a NYS Teaching Certification. All Catholic school teachers are certified!
As for test results...they are also published to the parents in the diocese. NYS doesn't fund them, so they don't publish them in Newsday. Why should they?? People don't pay taxes to them so they don't need to cater to LI parents that don't send their kids there. I am sure if you inquired, you would find their results as top notch. Our local parish publishes them in the church newsletter. Most schools I am familiar with mail a letter of statistics home.
Many high schools don't take the Regents because the Regents is too easy and sub-par for their curriculum. The give a final much more challenging than the Regents that was approved by the NY state Dept of education and certified as more difficult than the Regents. When I was in Catholic High school 10 years ago, we took the Regents and an additional more difficult final because the Regents was considered to be a joke and everyone got 85 or above.
There seem to be many posters on this thread with inside knowledge about parochial schools so I ask these question:
1. How often and by whom is catholic school curriculum updated?
2. What type of professional development is required by teachers and how often do they receive it?
3 Who teaches the professional development and what are the credentials?
4 Are all teachers NYS certified in the area they are actually teaching?
Thesa are all questions I had a difficult time getting answers to when I was researching schools for my children.
As for test results...they are also published to the parents in the diocese. NYS doesn't fund them, so they don't publish them in Newsday. Why should they??
Like I said, if I was a school administrator and my school had such sterling scores on NYS assessments, I would make sure it was published! With Catholic school enrollment down, don't you think showing test scores that far surpass public school test scores would make parents want to do whatever they could to send their kids to Catholic School????
Quote:
Our local parish publishes them in the church newsletter. Most schools I am familiar with mail a letter of statistics home.
And how do you know that's accurate?? They're publishing it in their own newsletter, not in a public publication where it would be open to scrutiny.
Everyone has their own experience and their own opinion on Catholic v Public schools. I've seen it from both sides and I can assure you I would never recommend Catholic school to anyone unless they live in a horrendous school district (Wyandanch, Roosevelt, Amityville, etc).
Like I said, if I was a school administrator and my school had such sterling scores on NYS assessments, I would make sure it was published! With Catholic school enrollment down, don't you think showing test scores that far surpass public school test scores would make parents want to do whatever they could to send their kids to Catholic School????
And how do you know that's accurate?? They're publishing it in their own newsletter, not in a public publication where it would be open to scrutiny.
Everyone has their own experience and their own opinion on Catholic v Public schools. I've seen it from both sides and I can assure you I would never recommend Catholic school to anyone unless they live in a horrendous school district (Wyandanch, Roosevelt, Amityville, etc).
I am sorry you had a bad experience at your local private school. So many are excellent, it is a shame that you experienced one of the few sub-par schools.
As for publication, they only publish to the parishoners because they subsidize the school. They wouldn't lie as it is too easy to find out scores. Why should they publish to people who don't give them a cent...seperation of church and state.
Catholic school enrollment is not down and many schools have waiting lists (except for a few sub-par ones). The good schools are not hurting for enrollment so why pay to publish. they don't need the enrollment. My friend teaches at an catholic elementary school and her class is maxed out with a waiting list. My mom teaches at a catholic high school and the wait list is over 200 kids long. I really don't think they are hurting like you seem to believe...if they were they would be recruiting more...but they don't need to (overall). The buildings are not equipped for big class sizes and most schools max out at 2 sections of each grade at 30-35 students each section. Most don't want overly big classes because you lose individual attention. You don't see schools closing..even in this economy. I have another friend who teaches at a private Lutheran elementary school and they are busting at the seams too.
I also have friends who teach in public school who are worried about losing their jobs. None of my Catholic school teacher friends are worried because of the booming enrollment. (I have a ton of teacher friends)
Perhaps you are judging all catholic schools by your one bad experience. I would be interested to find out what school made you so bitter toward Catholic education??
If Catholic school enrollment isn't down, why do I keep reading stories about dioceses closing schools? Parish elementary schools seem to be hard hit, while the independent HS seem to be doing fairly well.
ETA: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...pagewanted=all says that Catholic school enrollment in the diocese of Rockville Centre dropped 27% from 1995 to 2005, though it's held steady for the past couple of years.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Catholic school questions
