What does lubbock need? (Houston, Dallas: real estate, apartment complexes, tech jobs)

[whitegiant]

What do you think Lubbock Needs to improve the quality of life. It has some things but not like what a city needs to make alot of people want to move here. We don't have really anything fun to do except for tech things wich is fine but what else could we get. I think a large zoo would be something cool. What do you think that we could get to make it even better than it is now?

[TX_AGGIE13]

Some hills, and greenery!...lol...jk. Lubbock is a decient place, but an aquired taste I think.

[Westerner92]

^^^In all reality, I think the scenery is what deters many people, even though the city is actually very modern and pleasant looking. The things Lubbock needs the most are a new downtown, higher density development, and more variety of stores, which we are in the process of building. As far as Lubbock having nothing to do, I don't think this is the case, though we can always have more activities. I remember I one weekend recently where I played tennis, wakeboarded at Lake Alan Henry, played frisbee golf, went to a Tech football game, and went to a local concert. Lubbock should also encourage the music scene to grow and add more attractions. Case44 has some great ideas for Lubbock which I'm hoping he'll share with us. Well, I'm done rambling for now.

[TX_AGGIE13]

Also irrigation. I remember last time I was there it rained for 2 days, and there was 4 ft of water it seemed like everywhere. I agree with the post above though. Lubbock has an amazing musical history, and if they were to develop more of a "Austin 6th Street" like area that may bring more people out. I think it will be somewhat hard with the remote location though, so maybe an emphasis on Jazz, or Country music would be a great change so there wouldn't be the Austin competition. The city is just at 350K in the metro now so some sort of tourism attraction like that might bring in the businesses, charm, and growth. I also agree that the downtown needs revitalization, but hard to ask for much untill there is much more growth. If Lubbock does grow alot though I'd be scared to see the sprawl issues with nothing but cheap land to build out and out.

[Westerner92]

Originally Posted by TX_AGGIE13

I also agree that the downtown needs revitalization, but hard to ask for much untill there is much more growth. If Lubbock does grow alot though I'd be scared to see the sprawl issues with nothing but cheap land to build out and out.

We are actually in the process of revitalizing downtown right now! The real estate company that's doing the Overton Park revitalization is doing the one downtown. The plans and budget are already done and they're set to begin construction very soon. I don't think sprawl will be much of an issue because for as long as Lubbock has existed, new develpment has been built contiguous to current development, and I don't expect that to change.

[juggler]

IMO Lubbock does not really need anything. It's doing just fine as is.

Now if you want throngs of people to move here, there are some things Lubbock could use, some of them attainable, some not.
The biggest thing is job opportunities - that is what gets people to move to a city, moreso than tourist attractions and retail stores. I personally would like to see a lot more high-tech jobs in Lubbock.
Also, more outdoor recreation opportunities tends to draw people, but I'm not sure there's much that can be done to fix that. As mentioned, there's Lake Alan Henry, but it's over an hour away, and not much to speak of.

Originally Posted by Westerner92

I don't think sprawl will be much of an issue because for as long as Lubbock has existed, new development has been built contiguous to current development, and I don't expect that to change.

Westerner, just because the new development is contiguous does not mean it is not sprawl. Sprawl is defined as low density non-mixed use development at the edge of a city, characterized by needing an auto to access it, and often containing strip-mall commercial developments. That fits south & southwest Lubbock to a T.

I was flying over Lubbock at night about a year ago. From 35000 feet, I could see the Loop around the city that "enclosed" most development - it looked like a bubble, but there was this huge "leak" in the southwest part of the city, where the bubble had metaphorically burst and there were large patches of light everywhere. The first thing I thought of when I saw that is Sprawl, exhibit A.

Speaking of the Loop, one thing Lubbock definitely does NOT need - the outer Loop that has been in the news recently. I could see maybe a partial loop (an "arc", if you will) around the southern edge of the city, but a loop around the north and east where development is non-existent (and with little forecasted development) is completely ridiculous. The metro population is forecast to grow by only about 30K in the next 20 years, so I don't know how this loop could even be considered.

[Westerner92]

I guess it depends on your definition of spawl. In my college course, I was taught that sprawl was any noncontiguous development. By your definition, any urban development built after 1940 could be considered sprawl because it was built to accomidate cars. I live in southwest Lubbock, and I live within a mile of two grocery stores, retail, a movie theater, and several restaurants, and there are sidewalks to take me there. The Vintage Township is an excellent example of the "smart growth" that Lubbock is encouraging.

Two nights ago, they did a report about the proposed loop, and they mentioned nothing about it going northeast of town. They just said it was going to be in the 1585/Inler Ave. corridor from US 87 to US 84 in Shallowater. The city has already grown out this far, and the loop is congested for much of the day, so I think researching the new loop is very smart idea. Lubbock has grown almost 20,000 in 8 years, and it's expected to keep this growth rate.
Lubbock is growing like this mostly because people are looking to get into the healthcare and education, which never boom, but are always stable.

[case44]

Originally Posted by Westerner92

^^^In all reality, I think the scenery is what deters many people, even though the city is actually very modern and pleasant looking. The things Lubbock needs the most are a new downtown, higher density development, and more variety of stores, which we are in the process of building. As far as Lubbock having nothing to do, I don't think this is the case, though we can always have more activities. I remember I one weekend recently where I played tennis, wakeboarded at Lake Alan Henry, played frisbee golf, went to a Tech football game, and went to a local concert. Lubbock should also encourage the music scene to grow and add more attractions. Case44 has some great ideas for Lubbock which I'm hoping he'll share with us. Well, I'm done rambling for now.

Well, here I am now. Sorry I'm a bit late here for the party.

As an outside visitor (I live in the Dallas area, by the way), I could have harbored many different impressions of this city when I made my visits, which are infrequent. Rather than one saying, "Well, this is just one boring place!", I've instead looked at the positives here, and I'm thinking, "There is too much potential not to have _______ here." And there's always going to be something, but that's any city. The _______ could be anything.

So, first off, Lubbock does have its advantages. People underestimate the location of the city, which is just about halfway between Albuquerque and the Dallas-Fort Worth area, and also, halfway between Amarillo and Midland-Odessa. Location, location, location. Forget the surrounding terrain. They may not have a transcontinental interstate such as I-40 or I-10, but they could one day have an expanded freeway network with numerous connections. Let's look at the city's center. Do they need downtown to prosper?? Absolutely. Work is starting now, but much more needs to be done. The city definitely needs a definitive skyline. It doesn't necessarily have to be terribly overpowering like a Dallas or a Houston, but it should have an identity that strikes a chord with residents and visitors alike. It will take growing the city's own businesses and enticing outside companies and corporations. It's not impossible. If your tallest building is the NTS Building, people are not going to get excited. Turning to what you do the pass the time now, well, let's look at that. Is there nothing to do in Lubbock?? I would say there's not nothing to do, but that doesn't mean you can't have new ideas. It wouldn't hurt to have a zoo or a botanical garden, and they could sure use one of each, but the city needs at least one unique thing (attraction, monument, other) that you can easily remember and easily identify with that city. As for scenery, well, that takes time. Lubbock has surrounding towns, and something can also happen there, which can help, but the city proper needs to focus on landscaping and aesthetics, as well as street improvements. You've got to be innovative, and it requires putting your best foot and my best foot forward to make it happen.

The key is for Lubbock to have a vision and a goal. If people are tired of it being in the middle of "isolation", then something can be done to change that and make a more positive perception about the place.

[juggler]

Originally Posted by Westerner92

I guess it depends on your definition of spawl. In my college course, I was taught that sprawl was any noncontiguous development. By your definition, any urban development built after 1940 could be considered sprawl because it was built to accomidate cars. I live in southwest Lubbock, and I live within a mile of two grocery stores, retail, a movie theater, and several restaurants, and there are sidewalks to take me there. The Vintage Township is an excellent example of the "smart growth" that Lubbock is encouraging.

Vintage Township is nice, but yes, the other 99.5% of Lubbock could be considered sprawl. Lubbock is a VERY low density city (I think it's telling that almost every street has space-hogging alleys, and the vast majority of apartment complexes are only two stories.). Almost everyone drives to work, residential areas consist primarily of large housing subdivisions surrounded by local arterial streets full of strip malls. Mass transit is minimal and poorly utilized, as are bike lanes. Sprawl.

Two nights ago, they did a report about the proposed loop, and they mentioned nothing about it going northeast of town. They just said it was going to be in the 1585/Inler Ave. corridor from US 87 to US 84 in Shallowater. The city has already grown out this far, and the loop is congested for much of the day, so I think researching the new loop is very smart idea. Lubbock has grown almost 20,000 in 8 years, and it's expected to keep this growth rate.

That's good to hear. That's kinda what I was expecting - an arc around the SW side of the city.

[case44]

Originally Posted by TX_AGGIE13

I agree with the post above though. Lubbock has an amazing musical history, and if they were to develop more of a "Austin 6th Street" like area that may bring more people out. I think it will be somewhat hard with the remote location though, so maybe an emphasis on Jazz, or Country music would be a great change so there wouldn't be the Austin competition. The city is just at 350K in the metro now so some sort of tourism attraction like that might bring in the businesses, charm, and growth. I also agree that the downtown needs revitalization, but hard to ask for much untill there is much more growth. If Lubbock does grow alot though I'd be scared to see the sprawl issues with nothing but cheap land to build out and out.

And with the amazing music history, that very thing is exactly what Lubbock needs to build on. Something like Sixth Street would work, but they already have the Depot District, so you can play off of that very easily. As for tourism, you can never have too much. A new theme park (doesn't have to be owned by Six Flags), or something with a Western theme, or a place with a series of shops and restaurants that have a flair unlike that of the region (something like European Gardens), or a minor-league baseball park downtown. And if prices of land are really as cheap as you say, then look out. People would surely eat that up. Lubbock is not landlocked, so anything's possible.

Originally Posted by Westerner92

I guess it depends on your definition of spawl. In my college course, I was taught that sprawl was any noncontiguous development. By your definition, any urban development built after 1940 could be considered sprawl because it was built to accomidate cars. I live in southwest Lubbock, and I live within a mile of two grocery stores, retail, a movie theater, and several restaurants, and there are sidewalks to take me there. The Vintage Township is an excellent example of the "smart growth" that Lubbock is encouraging.

Two nights ago, they did a report about the proposed loop, and they mentioned nothing about it going northeast of town. They just said it was going to be in the 1585/Inler Ave. corridor from US 87 to US 84 in Shallowater. The city has already grown out this far, and the loop is congested for much of the day, so I think researching the new loop is very smart idea. Lubbock has grown almost 20,000 in 8 years, and it's expected to keep this growth rate.
Lubbock is growing like this mostly because people are looking to get into the healthcare and education, which never boom, but are always stable.

I had read somewhere that TXDOT did have a proposal to build an outer beltway, and that it will encircle the entire city eventually, roughly in the paths of FM 1585, FM 179, FM 1264, and FM 1729. If they've revised the plans recently, I'll be sure to check them out. As far as if and when they decide to build it, obviously, they'll build it piecemeal and where the biggest needs are first. I can see it going around the west from New Deal to Posey (between SE Lubbock and Slaton). Lubbock may have had one particular pattern of growing for years, but I see that changing. I think it will accelerate, with a little bit more each year. I'd rather the people in the area plan for the beltway and save land for it now. It's just smarter planning. Austin is paying a steep price for not planning ahead, but Lubbock will not have that problem. They could well have a better advantage over any other Texas city in that regard.