It's official: Maryland is a NORTHEASTERN state! (Baltimore, Clinton: high school, college)

[ialmostforgot]

Originally Posted by U146

The Mason Dixon line was never meant to be a North South boundary. It was to settle a property dispute. Culture, linguistics, politics, etc. all make the majority of Maryland more like states to the North of it than to the South of it, specifically PA and NJ and DE.

We know. Sniffablecow has stressed that as well. However, we also know that the line began to have that significance because it separated a free middle state from a "slave state" in the south. That is what the previous poster meant.

Of course, when you cross the line you are not automatically in some very southern place. The "southernness" is graduated.

Tezcatlipoca, would you really say that Maryland is dominated by Midland when it comes to local accents? I know many people in the Baltimore and DC areas don't have the accent, but the same occurrence two states to our south doesn't put a hole in the "southern" region in North Carolina.

[westsideboy]

This map was done by Hans Kurath around 1949 based on on a study of word usage in different regions of the United States. Lexical study is the more linguistically accurate term, but more or less it was a study that grouped people based on regional terminology, not unlike what is done today.



You'll notice that even before the big waves of transplants came in after WWII, Maryland north of Baltimore is Midland speech. At this point we all know these lines aren't hard and fast, but in general, the northern parts of Maryland have always been Midland speech because of their connections to PA culture, while MD south of Baltimore was traditionally Southern in speech (with a different dialect on the western and eastern shores.)

This line has crept down south of D.C. now, creating the "donut" you speak of. I tend to go with Dr. Labov and call that "the Mid-atlantic dialect." It isn't the native Midland dialect of northern MD, it isn't the native Southern speech of the region 60 years ago, it is a new dialect region that encompasses the transplant regions of MD up to Philly and southern Jersey.

So, I guess the difference between a state like MD and one like NC is that Maryland has always had PA based midland dialects, and now we have a new dialect region that is replacing much of what was once Southern speech. You can make the point that Appalachian English is a Midland dialect, although I tend to think the whole Southern Midland/Upper South debate is overblown. Sure, many midland dialect traits made it down the mountains, but Rt. 50 is a pretty good demarcation between more Midland mountain speech, and the more Southern influenced dialects of Southern WV, Kentucky, the Smokies, etc.

[Infinite_heights77]

Age, old enough!

Childish, yes!

Originally Posted by sniffablecow

Not to be a creep, but how old are you? Sometimes, you act so childish, which is not a bad thing.

[Infinite_heights77]

LOLOLOL!!!

It was just a fun post people. Take it with a grain of salt, a pitcher of Natty Bo, laugh and sit the f&^^k down somewhere.

It's not that crucial and critical of a topic. The fate of the planet isn't dependent on Maryland's regional identity.

[Infinite_heights77]

Cool map!

Originally Posted by westsideboy

This map was done by Hans Kurath around 1949 based on on a study of word usage in different regions of the United States. Lexical study is the more linguistically accurate term, but more or less it was a study that grouped people based on regional terminology, not unlike what is done today.



You'll notice that even before the big waves of transplants came in after WWII, Maryland north of Baltimore is Midland speech. At this point we all know these lines aren't hard and fast, but in general, the northern parts of Maryland have always been Midland speech because of their connections to PA culture, while MD south of Baltimore was traditionally Southern in speech (with a different dialect on the western and eastern shores.)

This line has crept down south of D.C. now, creating the "donut" you speak of. I tend to go with Dr. Labov and call that "the Mid-atlantic dialect." It isn't the native Midland dialect of northern MD, it isn't the native Southern speech of the region 60 years ago, it is a new dialect region that encompasses the transplant regions of MD up to Philly and southern Jersey.

So, I guess the difference between a state like MD and one like NC is that Maryland has always had PA based midland dialects, and now we have a new dialect region that is replacing much of what was once Southern speech. You can make the point that Appalachian English is a Midland dialect, although I tend to think the whole Southern Midland/Upper South debate is overblown. Sure, many midland dialect traits made it down the mountains, but Rt. 50 is a pretty good demarcation between more Midland mountain speech, and the more Southern influenced dialects of Southern WV, Kentucky, the Smokies, etc.

[sniffablecow]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

This map was done by Hans Kurath around 1949 based on on a study of word usage in different regions of the United States. Lexical study is the more linguistically accurate term, but more or less it was a study that grouped people based on regional terminology, not unlike what is done today.



You'll notice that even before the big waves of transplants came in after WWII, Maryland north of Baltimore is Midland speech. At this point we all know these lines aren't hard and fast, but in general, the northern parts of Maryland have always been Midland speech because of their connections to PA culture, while MD south of Baltimore was traditionally Southern in speech (with a different dialect on the western and eastern shores.)

This line has crept down south of D.C. now, creating the "donut" you speak of. I tend to go with Dr. Labov and call that "the Mid-atlantic dialect." It isn't the native Midland dialect of northern MD, it isn't the native Southern speech of the region 60 years ago, it is a new dialect region that encompasses the transplant regions of MD up to Philly and southern Jersey.

So, I guess the difference between a state like MD and one like NC is that Maryland has always had PA based midland dialects, and now we have a new dialect region that is replacing much of what was once Southern speech. You can make the point that Appalachian English is a Midland dialect, although I tend to think the whole Southern Midland/Upper South debate is overblown. Sure, many midland dialect traits made it down the mountains, but Rt. 50 is a pretty good demarcation between more Midland mountain speech, and the more Southern influenced dialects of Southern WV, Kentucky, the Smokies, etc.

Typed in dialect maps on google, these came up (look in attachments). I did find one of the maps fishy, it considered northwestern MD southern, but not eastern shore or southern MD... Also, another map left chunks of maryland out of a category! Im talking about the one with the circles.

[sniffablecow]

Originally Posted by sniffablecow

Typed in dialect maps on google, these came up (look in attachments). I did find one of the maps fishy, it considered northwestern MD southern, but not eastern shore or southern MD... Also, another map left chunks of maryland out of a category! Im talking about the one with the circles.

sorry that the first map is so small, it had to be for me to upload it.

[ialmostforgot]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

This map was done by Hans Kurath around 1949 based on on a study of word usage in different regions of the United States. Lexical study is the more linguistically accurate term, but more or less it was a study that grouped people based on regional terminology, not unlike what is done today.



You'll notice that even before the big waves of transplants came in after WWII, Maryland north of Baltimore is Midland speech. At this point we all know these lines aren't hard and fast, but in general, the northern parts of Maryland have always been Midland speech because of their connections to PA culture, while MD south of Baltimore was traditionally Southern in speech (with a different dialect on the western and eastern shores.)

This line has crept down south of D.C. now, creating the "donut" you speak of. I tend to go with Dr. Labov and call that "the Mid-atlantic dialect." It isn't the native Midland dialect of northern MD, it isn't the native Southern speech of the region 60 years ago, it is a new dialect region that encompasses the transplant regions of MD up to Philly and southern Jersey.

So, I guess the difference between a state like MD and one like NC is that Maryland has always had PA based midland dialects, and now we have a new dialect region that is replacing much of what was once Southern speech. You can make the point that Appalachian English is a Midland dialect, although I tend to think the whole Southern Midland/Upper South debate is overblown. Sure, many midland dialect traits made it down the mountains, but Rt. 50 is a pretty good demarcation between more Midland mountain speech, and the more Southern influenced dialects of Southern WV, Kentucky, the Smokies, etc.

I've seen this map before. The issue is that the mixed dialect created by various transplant sources is not Mid-Atlantic like NJ or inland Pennsylvania speech. It's difficult to define or categorize linguistically.

[ialmostforgot]

Originally Posted by sniffablecow

Typed in dialect maps on google, these came up (look in attachments). I did find one of the maps fishy, it considered northwestern MD southern, but not eastern shore or southern MD... Also, another map left chunks of maryland out of a category! Im talking about the one with the circles.

Well the accent region doesn't adhere to latitude; older migration patterns provide clues. That's why the southern/midland isogloss follows the Potomac after the DC area.

[Tezcatlipoca]

Originally Posted by sniffablecow

Typed in dialect maps on google, these came up (look in attachments). I did find one of the maps fishy, it considered northwestern MD southern, but not eastern shore or southern MD... Also, another map left chunks of maryland out of a category! Im talking about the one with the circles.

You'll notice in most dialect studies or maps they have no samples from SoMD, and generally few to none from the eastern shore. There's often a lack of samples from the Tidewater area outside of Hampton Roads too. So the mappers will tend to put these areas where they 'think they belong', due to bias or their idea of common knowledge or whatever. Labov (4th Map) had NO samples from SoMD or the Eastern Shore, and the closest Aschmann (1st Map) has to SoMD is Clinton, PG County, which is at the edge of SoMD at best. For the Eastern Shore he has Frank Perdue, and Jeannie Haddaway-Riccio who to me sounds like she just has your educated General American accent with the Maryland pronunciation of "on" as "awn" tacked on.