My opinion: we should replace the Key Bridge and Bay Bridge with tunnels

[Quick Enough]

Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry

Let's not overreact to some freak accident. Tunnels cost more money than any jurisdiction can afford and will screw up traffic for years. There are no tankers on the Potomac River, the Bay bridge is fortified but it could use more. So do that.

"Tunnels cost more money than any jurisdiction can afford"

HMMM, then how did so many get built?

Most I know of had a toll until the bills were paid off. Like the Chesapeake Bay bridge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesap...E2%80%93Tunnel

Then, "in mid-1960, the Chesapeake Bay Ferry Commission sold $200 million in toll revenue bonds (equivalent to $1.52 billion in 2023 dollars) to private investors, and the proceeds were used to finance the construction of the bridge–tunnel. Funds collected by future tolls were pledged to pay the principal and interest on the bonds. No local, state, or federal tax funds were used in the construction of the project."

If you want something bad enough, ways can be find to get it!

[Quick Enough]

Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry

Let's not overreact to some freak accident. Tunnels cost more money than any jurisdiction can afford and will screw up traffic for years. There are no tankers on the Potomac River, the Bay bridge is fortified but it could use more. So do that.

"Tunnels cost more money than any jurisdiction can afford"

So?

"In mid-1960, the Chesapeake Bay Ferry Commission sold $200 million in toll revenue bonds (equivalent to $1.52 billion in 2023 dollars) to private investors, and the proceeds were used to finance the construction of the bridge–tunnel. Funds collected by future tolls were pledged to pay the principal and interest on the bonds. No local, state, or federal tax funds were used in the construction of the project."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesap...E2%80%93Tunnel

[NJ2MDdude]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

Re: Bay Bridge.

I think that in the short term you could possibly install "dolphins" aka cement islands in front of the main supports.

Considering that there is already big budget needs on the table that may be a cheaper, practical short term remedy.

I think a lot of places may be considering the same thing for vulnerable bridges.

I agree with this position.

The short term plan may be to repair the bridge, add pier protection and require tug boat escort.

The long term plan may be to replace the bridge. I magine the state could build another tunnel or a bridge similar to the Woodrow Wison Bridge. But, in either case, it took many years of planning and construction.

[H8PJs]

Originally Posted by bus man

But what about hazmats? Surely we don't want hazmat trucks sharing a tunnel with regular traffic. So here's how we handle that. On the Key Bridge, each bore is open to regular traffic (i.e. two lanes in each direction) between 5:00 a.m. and 10:00 a.m., and again between 2:00 p.m. and 8:00 p.m. During those hours, hazmats are not allowed but regular trucks would be. We'd probably need to build some kind of waiting area, like a rest area for trucks, so they can wait during those hours. During other hours, one bore is used for two-way traffic just for cars, while the other one is used for alternating two-way traffic for all trucks, hazmat and otherwise. Northbound trucks enter the tunnel from the top of the hour to 20 minutes past; 10 minutes to clear them out; then southbound trucks enter the tunnel from the bottom of the hour to 50 minutes past; then 10 minutes to clear them out. Repeat hourly. Having trucks go only one way at a time eliminates the possibility of head-on collisions.

What do you think?

What an absolutely horrible idea for not only traffic flow, but commerce and interstate travel for that sort of vehicle. And think of the commuters that will impact. They either sit and wait for a random opening, or they drive all the way around, ALSO adding a half hour or more to their commute. Live in Sparrows Point or Edgemere? Don't even try to get to BWI on time. Or Hawkins Point to Dundalk/vice versa (all the truck traffic that currently can't go on 895 for example).

[Quick Enough]

Originally Posted by H8PJs

What an absolutely horrible idea for not only traffic flow, but commerce and interstate travel for that sort of vehicle. And think of the commuters that will impact. They either sit and wait for a random opening, or they drive all the way around, ALSO adding a half hour or more to their commute. Live in Sparrows Point or Edgemere? Don't even try to get to BWI on time. Or Hawkins Point to Dundalk/vice versa (all the truck traffic that currently can't go on 895 for example).

"What an absolutely horrible idea....."
Some never think past their noses.

[Tom Lennox 70]

I prefer driving over bridges than tunnels. Bridges are more visually appealing and prettier to drive across. When I lived in Baltimore County I found the view from the Key Bridge kind of impressive especially approaching Sparrows Point. A long as long as a Bay Bridge would also be boring and make drivers sleepy/tired as well.

[DaveinMtAiry]

Originally Posted by Quick Enough

"Tunnels cost more money than any jurisdiction can afford"

So?

"In mid-1960, the Chesapeake Bay Ferry Commission sold $200 million in toll revenue bonds (equivalent to $1.52 billion in 2023 dollars) to private investors, and the proceeds were used to finance the construction of the bridge–tunnel. Funds collected by future tolls were pledged to pay the principal and interest on the bonds. No local, state, or federal tax funds were used in the construction of the project."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesap...E2%80%93Tunnel

It is not 1960 it's 2024 and the costs are far different now. According to one poster a tunnel will cost 4 times as much as a bridge, my search said anywhere from twice to 3X. The new tolls will have to reflect this increase. As I said nobody will be willing to approve that, drivers will surely have a problem paying a toll 2-4X what they paid in the past and that's why it will never happen and is a bad idea IMO.

[Quick Enough]

Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry

It is not 1960 it's 2024 and the costs are far different now. According to one poster a tunnel will cost 4 times as much as a bridge, my search said anywhere from twice to 3X. The new tolls will have to reflect this increase. As I said nobody will be willing to approve that, drivers will surely have a problem paying a toll 2-4X what they paid in the past and that's why it will never happen and is a bad idea IMO.

"my search said anywhere from twice to 3X"

And the prices of everything has gone up.

" As I said nobody will be willing to approve that"

And how many did you ask BEFORE speaking for them?

My guess, ZERO!

Hey, you have YOUR opinions and others have theirs.

[Quick Enough]

Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70

I prefer driving over bridges than tunnels. Bridges are more visually appealing and prettier to drive across. When I lived in Baltimore County I found the view from the Key Bridge kind of impressive especially approaching Sparrows Point. A long as long as a Bay Bridge would also be boring and make drivers sleepy/tired as well.

I have no preference.

I just want to get where I am going in the fastest manner available.

[DaveinMtAiry]

Originally Posted by Quick Enough

Hey, you have YOUR opinions and others have theirs.

And that is what message boards are for, to share your opinions. And an opinion that we should not increase the cost by 2 to 4 times is hardly some crazy, radical position to take IMO over one freak accident.

Toles will increase by 2-4 X from their previous amount. Then there is the challenge of raising that kind of money for the construction. Bonds are not free money, it needs to be repaid with interest. All of these additional costs will be absorbed by the drivers who utilize that bridge and by tax payers.