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Old 04-11-2013, 08:47 PM
 
23,565 posts, read 18,707,417 times
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The whole EBT set-up is just asking for abuse. When you give unrestricted cash with no good way of tracking the recipients (most of whom have already shown to exercise poor judgment in life by the sheer fact that they are on the dole to begin with), the results are not likely to be good.

We need to scrap the whole system and provide people with the GOODS they NEED. Either set up more food banks that provide the basic essentials or some type of vouchers that can only be used at the grocery store for healthy non-prepared grocery items. Saying that's too complicated, that is total baloney. The have the ability to track EVERYTHING we do now at the register. Provide housing (major reforms of Section 8 are called for) and child care so the parents have the chance to work and get off the system. Just don't give someone cash who has proven to not be responsible enough.
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Old 04-12-2013, 04:03 PM
 
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There's no real incentive or interest by state and local governments to get people off the system and employers aren't going to do much. I can only speak for massachusetts. Maybe other states are different depending on who's in charge. People can tell you stories about fraud going back to the 70's and 80's. That's how long this has been going on. The bulk of the jobs in this state require skills which most poor people don't have and aren't in a position to get. All the unskilled jobs are taken or have major competition from laid off skilled workers, teenagers, immigrants and college students. There are people who still have pride but the whole system has drifted far off from it's original intentions which was to provide temporary assistance to people who were down the slopes. It's turned into a machine for state bureaucrats to keep themselves at the top by promising people everything for free at the expense of you the taxpayer. It's a lifestyle for many people now. But again, like I said some people really do want to get to a better place but there's not much that can be done.

Shauna O' Connell and the others on her team don't want to scrap the system, but bring it back more to how it's supposed to be.

Last edited by parried; 04-12-2013 at 04:30 PM..
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:52 PM
 
3,755 posts, read 4,801,691 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachcomber4 View Post
20,000 EBT cards are reported lost each month- recipients get a new one, no questions asked.

19,000 voter registration forms were sent to the addresses of welfare recipients that came back "return to sender".

I have read estimates that welfare fraud costs the taxpayers of MA about $25 million per year.

I don't have an amount in my mind. No fraud should be tolerated. And while there are those who feel that 25 million is insignifigant, I argue that it is a significant amount to those who truly need and deserve that assistance.
I believe the state spent over $300k getting out the voter registration forms to voters during the last election cycle.
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:54 PM
 
3,755 posts, read 4,801,691 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71 View Post
The whole EBT set-up is just asking for abuse. When you give unrestricted cash with no good way of tracking the recipients (most of whom have already shown to exercise poor judgment in life by the sheer fact that they are on the dole to begin with), the results are not likely to be good.

We need to scrap the whole system and provide people with the GOODS they NEED. Either set up more food banks that provide the basic essentials or some type of vouchers that can only be used at the grocery store for healthy non-prepared grocery items. Saying that's too complicated, that is total baloney. The have the ability to track EVERYTHING we do now at the register. Provide housing (major reforms of Section 8 are called for) and child care so the parents have the chance to work and get off the system. Just don't give someone cash who has proven to not be responsible enough.
Yep. A Government run program that gives away free money, what could go wrong? Governor Patrick and co. will never get serious about cracking down and passing serious reforms to the whole program. They seem to have zero issues with the fact that an EBT card can be used to buy Tobacco and Alcohol and you can deduct sizable sums of money in cash.
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Old 04-12-2013, 09:50 PM
 
23,565 posts, read 18,707,417 times
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Originally Posted by parried View Post
The bulk of the jobs in this state require skills which most poor people don't have and aren't in a position to get. All the unskilled jobs are taken or have major competition from laid off skilled workers, teenagers, immigrants and college students.
That problem lies primarily in the education system. Our public schools do an excellent job at preparing students for a B.A. or a B.S. degree program, but what about all the students who aren't wired for that? There are actually industries still here in the state that cannot find help because of the lack of people who have proper training in that field. The state needs to move away from the one-size-fits-all approach, and recognize that our economy is just as dependent on the vocational skilled as the "college" educated. Find out what jobs will be hiring down the road, and prepare today's students for them. The better a job the state does there, the fewer chronically unemployed/underemployed/directionless individuals there will be. It will also put an end to the state's long term economic/cultural decline and stop the middle-class flight out of here.
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:33 AM
 
Location: SE Mass
144 posts, read 123,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71 View Post
That problem lies primarily in the education system. Our public schools do an excellent job at preparing students for a B.A. or a B.S. degree program, but what about all the students who aren't wired for that? There are actually industries still here in the state that cannot find help because of the lack of people who have proper training in that field. The state needs to move away from the one-size-fits-all approach, and recognize that our economy is just as dependent on the vocational skilled as the "college" educated. Find out what jobs will be hiring down the road, and prepare today's students for them. The better a job the state does there, the fewer chronically unemployed/underemployed/directionless individuals there will be. It will also put an end to the state's long term economic/cultural decline and stop the middle-class flight out of here.
Vocational high schools don't get enough love and so don't get enough funding. They're out there, and they train teenagers to enter into the work force as plumbers, electricians, machinists, carpenters, etc. The people I know who attended one located in Franklin, MA (Tri-County RVTHS) are mostly all gainfully employed, a few are doing particularly well in their trade and are now in their mid 20s making almost $30/hr working hard at useful jobs.

But since Vocational-Technical High Schools aren't all that popular, many kids who should be interested aren't and, again, funding isn't what should be.

One of these days I need to figure out how 'political activism' works.
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Old 04-13-2013, 02:58 PM
 
7,924 posts, read 7,814,489 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of FORTRAN View Post
Vocational high schools don't get enough love and so don't get enough funding. They're out there, and they train teenagers to enter into the work force as plumbers, electricians, machinists, carpenters, etc. The people I know who attended one located in Franklin, MA (Tri-County RVTHS) are mostly all gainfully employed, a few are doing particularly well in their trade and are now in their mid 20s making almost $30/hr working hard at useful jobs.

But since Vocational-Technical High Schools aren't all that popular, many kids who should be interested aren't and, again, funding isn't what should be.

One of these days I need to figure out how 'political activism' works.
Eh. Plumbers are protected by the law in Mass as per the code you cannot put in piping in walls, ceilings and floors. If it is exposed you can do whatever you want (toilet, sink basin, shower etc). If that law changes you'll see a significant drop off in the number of plumbers. Obviously plumbers lobby to keep the laws this way even though the consumers will benefit. On the same level there are some suggesting to allow dental assistants to legally perform some of the work that dentists do in mass. Likewise dentists are complaining again for the same issue.

In addition much of the trades business these days is based on governmental contracts. There's very little private construction out there and if there is it is largely running off of stimulus funds.

There is nothing wrong with vocational skills but some of it has to be applied in the right areas. Cooking can be fine to be a chef but to be one usually means either opening up your own place or finding a top restaurant and given the rise of cooking shows I'm sure that's tough.

Time magazine has a latest cover article on manufacturing coming back. The majority of those within it have a degree as it is more about being a technician rather than grunt manual labor.
How ‘Made in the USA’ is Making a Comeback | TIME.com

We might not like to hear it but from an employer standpoint experience within other employers does not add nearly as much so therefore the default is a college education. It does not have to be within a specific field. Few employers in the private sector will teach someone a skill that has a value somewhere else. Otherwise they are simply wasting some of their spending. Ex IBM workers in Vermont are not going to be taught how to use or develop Windows 8 or Android. Desault systems is not going to teach CAD being used with autocad (it's different system).

Some industries are more standardized but multiply like rabbits. Ever notice why hair and nail salons pop up all over the place because it is generally a low cost industry where people would learn the process, save up some money and then open up their own. I know a town where in a one mile section about eight hair places opened up!
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Old 04-14-2013, 04:36 PM
 
1,923 posts, read 2,410,115 times
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If you want to get a job and turn your life around people look at you like you have 2 heads but if you're trying to get on the dole there is no shortage of democrat-worshipping state bureaucrats who will teach you how to milk the system for all it's worth. Because I am on SSI I got a letter in the mail a few months ago begging me to vote (for DEMOCRATS, most likely). I ripped it up and threw it in the trash. Why should I vote for a political party that operates through bribery, and is more interested in wealth redistribution (worker tax $ to welfare recipient) instead of creating jobs and incentives to improve our lives.

The solution to this problem is cracking down on fraud, and creating real incentives to improve people's lives by creating jobs and helping people to become productive. It works out for everybody, everyone is happy. Taxpayers can feel at ease that their proceeds are being spent wisely, and less fortunate people turn their lives around and become productive citizens. It can be done, don't say it can't. It can absolutely be done.

Last edited by parried; 04-14-2013 at 04:44 PM..
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:39 PM
 
23,565 posts, read 18,707,417 times
Reputation: 10824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of FORTRAN View Post
Vocational high schools don't get enough love and so don't get enough funding. They're out there, and they train teenagers to enter into the work force as plumbers, electricians, machinists, carpenters, etc. The people I know who attended one located in Franklin, MA (Tri-County RVTHS) are mostly all gainfully employed, a few are doing particularly well in their trade and are now in their mid 20s making almost $30/hr working hard at useful jobs.

But since Vocational-Technical High Schools aren't all that popular, many kids who should be interested aren't and, again, funding isn't what should be.

One of these days I need to figure out how 'political activism' works.
I have several friends who attended Tri-County as well and they are all doing well. I do believe that the place is an exception rather than the rule however. It seems most other vocs are stuck in the past in what they are teaching. One thing you are right about is the stigma attached to them ("only the dumb kids go there"). That needs to change, and so does our one-size-fits-all approach to testing. Much talent is being wasted in areas where only so many are needed.
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:54 PM
 
23,565 posts, read 18,707,417 times
Reputation: 10824
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell View Post
We might not like to hear it but from an employer standpoint experience within other employers does not add nearly as much so therefore the default is a college education. It does not have to be within a specific field. Few employers in the private sector will teach someone a skill that has a value somewhere else. Otherwise they are simply wasting some of their spending. Ex IBM workers in Vermont are not going to be taught how to use or develop Windows 8 or Android. Desault systems is not going to teach CAD being used with autocad (it's different system)
The point is that these new manufacturing jobs are not going to those with a degree in Communications or other not-so-in-demand Liberal Arts programs that too many students are being pushed into. As the article states, much of what is required are 2-year technical degrees (and probably soon to be 4-year). In addition to more options at the secondary school level, our (especially community) colleges have a huge area to fill. Some states have done a much better job with that.
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