Under $250k any Massachusetts single family house with yard (Boston: rentals, HOA fees)

[mdovell]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

This is laughable. The guys who installed the fence in my yard can't telecommute from the boondocks. Same for the surveyor. Same for the tree crew. The crew that installed my gas fireplace insert and the plumber who hooked up the gas can't work remote.



I saw a physician yesterday in the huge for-profit medical complex. Nobody in that building can work remote. I drove past several schools to get there. None of those people will be remote after next month. I drove past Mall Hell. None of those people can work remote.



Some white collar workers can work 100% remote. That isn't most people. Generally, the people buying $250,000 homes aren't white collar professionals who can work remotely.

Right I get that but you have to understand that about 40% of the labor force now is telecommutting. Another 10-15% probably can't due to social distancing and that's not making the cash flow economically viable. The remainder are going in.

250K homes? I know some with half that (myself included) that can telecommute. Like you said it doesn't take much for broadband. Most software clients I know have moved from client to web based so any idea that they cannot go "online" and remotely just doesn't work. Heck I just found out about a woman that works for the planning agency in Brattleboro and lives in Springfield. Obviously she isn't driving 60 miles each way up and down 91. One that lived in the complex I moved from worked for the City of Rochester NY...from Springfield Ma.

You have to understand much of this goes both ways. The idea of saying all jobs have a physical place and time and again is fading. It's hard to say it's laughable just look at SF and NYC. Of course they'll still be physical work (I'm getting new beams put in as I write this and a load baring wall) and jobs but the idea of "the office" being a determination and factor in looking at employment is fading.

I used to work in Norwell. Norwell is awash in office parks. Yet there's tens of thousands of square feet of commercial real estate up for rent and lease. https://www.loopnet.com/search/offic...a11145adb353e1 Norwell was known for jobs 20-30 years ago and now it's empty space. Nothing in here was manufacturing or R&D. The company saves overhead and the employee saves commuting costs. The only loser is the commercial real estate owner.

Mall hell? Um...Amazon. Schools is still a bit debatable if they want to go back or not. From what I've heard is that in many districts, especially middle schools is that there was no real discipline at home. You have to think that for nearly a year there's been no student found tardy, no in or out of school suspensions etc. What do you think happens if the school tells them they have to go back home? Mass constitution specifically states a right to a public education but it does NOT say it has to be in a live classroom in person.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by mdovell

Right I get that but you have to understand that about 40% of the labor force now is telecommutting. Another 10-15% probably can't due to social distancing and that's not making the cash flow economically viable. The remainder are going in.

250K homes? I know some with half that (myself included) that can telecommute. Like you said it doesn't take much for broadband. Most software clients I know have moved from client to web based so any idea that they cannot go "online" and remotely just doesn't work. Heck I just found out about a woman that works for the planning agency in Brattleboro and lives in Springfield. Obviously she isn't driving 60 miles each way up and down 91. One that lived in the complex I moved from worked for the City of Rochester NY...from Springfield Ma.

You have to understand much of this goes both ways. The idea of saying all jobs have a physical place and time and again is fading. It's hard to say it's laughable just look at SF and NYC. Of course they'll still be physical work (I'm getting new beams put in as I write this and a load baring wall) and jobs but the idea of "the office" being a determination and factor in looking at employment is fading.

I used to work in Norwell. Norwell is awash in office parks. Yet there's tens of thousands of square feet of commercial real estate up for rent and lease. https://www.loopnet.com/search/offic...a11145adb353e1 Norwell was known for jobs 20-30 years ago and now it's empty space. Nothing in here was manufacturing or R&D. The company saves overhead and the employee saves commuting costs. The only loser is the commercial real estate owner.

Mall hell? Um...Amazon. Schools is still a bit debatable if they want to go back or not. From what I've heard is that in many districts, especially middle schools is that there was no real discipline at home. You have to think that for nearly a year there's been no student found tardy, no in or out of school suspensions etc. What do you think happens if the school tells them they have to go back home? Mass constitution specifically states a right to a public education but it does NOT say it has to be in a live classroom in person.

Most of this is so detached from reality, I don't even know where to begin...

[mdovell]

Originally Posted by massnative71

Most of this is so detached from reality, I don't even know where to begin...

Detached? Explain. Many people are working from home it's been that way for awhile now. Nothing I said is false or misleading these are things that are actually happening.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by mdovell

Detached? Explain. Many people are working from home it's been that way for awhile now. Nothing I said is false or misleading these are things that are actually happening.

You exaggerate tremendously. As much as some might fantasize about putting an end to human interaction as we know it, it's not happening like that. For instance, the idea that K-12 education can be done remotely with the same end result??? Just absurd.

[sawyer2]

Originally Posted by massnative71

You exaggerate tremendously. As much as some might fantasize about putting an end to human interaction as we know it, it's not happening like that. For instance, the idea that K-12 education can be done remotely with the same end result??? Just absurd.

yup, mdovell thinks we are all moving to springfield/holyoke, kids will self-educate on coursera/kahn, f2f human interaction is over ...... and Boston will go up in flames.

[mdovell]

Originally Posted by massnative71

You exaggerate tremendously. As much as some might fantasize about putting an end to human interaction as we know it, it's not happening like that. For instance, the idea that K-12 education can be done remotely with the same end result??? Just absurd.

I never claimed the same end result. If the governor is looking at hybrid work for state employees what would you make you think that everyone heads back to the office like it was years ago.

"yup, mdovell thinks we are all moving to springfield/holyoke, kids will self-educate on coursera/kahn, f2f human interaction is over ...... and Boston will go up in flames."

Hardly. Human interaction still happens but on a smaller scale in person. like I said smaller cities come back faster than larger because economy of scale and cashflow. Heck I wish I could see another play in NYC but thats not happening any time soon.

Companies rarely roll things back. We still take our shoes off at airports. We still have troops in Iraq and Afghanistan we still have in some areas a housing bubble. Sometimes things don't change.

[in_newengland]

I still say if they don't have to be near Boston, then go for Longmeadow or East Longmeadow. Great quality of life, gorgeous towns, safe, good for families, lots of houses just like the one they said was "perfect", and lots of things to like. Why live way out in Athol or some other obscure place when they can afford something in a really nice suburb like Longmeadow or East Longmeadow?

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1...56171028_zpid/

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2...56167642_zpid/

If there isn't much for sale now, there will be later. Great towns.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by in_newengland

I still say if they don't have to be near Boston, then go for Longmeadow or East Longmeadow. Great quality of life, gorgeous towns, safe, good for families, lots of houses just like the one they said was "perfect", and lots of things to like. Why live way out in Athol or some other obscure place when they can afford something in a really nice suburb like Longmeadow or East Longmeadow?

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1...56171028_zpid/

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2...56167642_zpid/

If there isn't much for sale now, there will be later. Great towns.

I don’t get why anyone with a metro Boston job would pick Longmeadow. There’s nothing there. Other than a strong school system, it doesn’t have any of the usual list of desirable attributes. No high walk score Main Street. It’s Springfield so not affluent enough for higher end retail. If you want to be within a few hours of your office to get in for the face to face meetings a few times per month, there are lots of other options. I had a couple of physician steps who lived in Longmeadow because they worked in Springfield so I’m familiar with the town.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by sawyer2

yup, mdovell thinks we are all moving to springfield/holyoke, kids will self-educate on coursera/kahn, f2f human interaction is over ...... and Boston will go up in flames.

Lots of people will have the option to move. I doubt any would pick Springfield/Holyoke. I’ve been telecommuting from two vacation homes since 2009.

I’m still not 100% sold on it being the best career option. It’s really hard to look for work when you’re 100% remote.

[mdovell]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

I don’t get why anyone with a metro Boston job would pick Longmeadow. There’s nothing there. Other than a strong school system, it doesn’t have any of the usual list of desirable attributes. No high walk score Main Street. It’s Springfield so not affluent enough for higher end retail. If you want to be within a few hours of your office to get in for the face to face meetings a few times per month, there are lots of other options. I had a couple of physician steps who lived in Longmeadow because they worked in Springfield so I’m familiar with the town.

As much as I might be critical of suburbs I don't see that much of an issue with the Longmeadows. If the foundation isn't an issue and the taxes are OK why not. I drive though Longmeadow on a regular basis and frankly it looks quite a bit like Hingham. Nice well kept houses, walkable wide sidewalks.

High end retail? Well there's some shops
https://thelongmeadowshops.com/real-directory/
Still has some activity even with covid
https://www.thereminder.com/localnew...gmeadow-shops/

If you like gift and craft place there's a fair amount. Not exactly my thing but to each their own
https://www.yelp.com/biz/bohdii-east-longmeadow
https://www.yelp.com/biz/willow-barn...t-longmeadow-2
https://www.yelp.com/biz/lux-boutique-east-longmeadow
https://www.yelp.com/biz/mimis-consi...ast-longmeadow
https://www.yelp.com/biz/gilberts-wr...ast-longmeadow

There's also plenty of retail further south in the Hartford area.

Look down Converse street it looks pretty clean to me
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0650...7i16384!8i8192

On a side note the only other real issue is if/when CT puts tolls on I91 that would force traffic down Rt 5. Long ago I was in Lexington and RT 2 traffic can easily ruin the downtown.

As for springfield and holyoke yes there is demand otherwise we wouldn't see rents and housing going up 10-15% in the past year. There are people that still want to live in a urban area, just with less people. Just like even before COVID people from boston were moving to Brockton.
https://www.enterprisenews.com/news/...ithout-yuppies