Population slightly down in MA 2022 (Boston, Woods Hole: buy, schools, closing)

[Beachcomber4]

Originally Posted by msRB311

Most people don't move here these days if they're getting a low salary.

We could argue back and forth on this all day. Most people in MA don't need affordable housing. Would some of them like it ? Sure. But most people get married which makes things easier or they move.

Ah. Now I get it. I thought yours was a reading comprehension issue. You’re just here to argue.

Most people? In what - your book club? Spin class?

There is a big world beyond the south shore bubble and your myopic, opinion/ anecdotal overgeneralizations.

[bostongymjunkie]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber4

This part of the discussion was specific to Barnstable County which has seen an substantial increase in year round population (many relocating from NY and CT) and driving up prices and making it nearly impossible to find housing for the people who keep municipalities and businesses functioning.

I haven't gone through the whole thread nor have I kept current on costs in Barnstable County. But I can see where some PD's there would have issues because there are not nearly as many details out there as Greater Boston, although I can see overtime being plentiful, especially during the summer months. Similar areas like Nassau and Suffolk Counties in NY have found the need to pay their patrol officers in excess of 100K per year for quite a number of years now. Edgartown, MA is looking for patrol officers with a starting base salary of 82K plus other incentives such as education premiums. LAPD offers direct cash housing subsidies to officers as part of the package including salary of over 80K. This is most likely where Barnstable will be heading if it wishes to recruit quality personnel who will hang out for the long haul. Otherwise, they will get people (probably those living locally with parents) who come in, get training and some experience and then bounce. Maybe they go to other PD's or maybe they go to the Feds. Has there been any recent public debate about the issue specifically as it relates to police?


Edit: And as a point of info. Edgartown wants academy trained officers. So that's one of the places officers will jump to once they get the training that the first agency paid for. It will also attract a type of officer looking for something relatively mellow during off peak season.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by Lampert

Renting in Boston is brutal long term but it's not that bad if you are planning for a short period. I lived in Boston for a few years with about 30k income a few years ago. If you make 50k is still absolutely doable today. Just not doable for a lifetime.

Can you put some words around this? Do you mean roommates?

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

Can you put some words around this? Do you mean roommates?

Yeah absolutely, roommates. You have to. Again, you do it knowing it is temporary, is not that big of a deal.
I feel much worse for people whose expected salary is still not great after years of work.

[bostongymjunkie]

Related article:


https://www.boston.com/real-estate/l...p_featurestack

[msRB311]

Oh gosh it just can't be! MA is the greatest!

[Beachcomber4]

Originally Posted by bostongymjunkie

I haven't gone through the whole thread nor have I kept current on costs in Barnstable County. But I can see where some PD's there would have issues because there are not nearly as many details out there as Greater Boston, although I can see overtime being plentiful, especially during the summer months. Similar areas like Nassau and Suffolk Counties in NY have found the need to pay their patrol officers in excess of 100K per year for quite a number of years now. Edgartown, MA is looking for patrol officers with a starting base salary of 82K plus other incentives such as education premiums. LAPD offers direct cash housing subsidies to officers as part of the package including salary of over 80K. This is most likely where Barnstable will be heading if it wishes to recruit quality personnel who will hang out for the long haul. Otherwise, they will get people (probably those living locally with parents) who come in, get training and some experience and then bounce. Maybe they go to other PD's or maybe they go to the Feds. Has there been any recent public debate about the issue specifically as it relates to police?


Edit: And as a point of info. Edgartown wants academy trained officers. So that's one of the places officers will jump to once they get the training that the first agency paid for. It will also attract a type of officer looking for something relatively mellow during off peak season.

If you go back to post 35 you will see the genesis of this thread.

The AMI for a family of 4 in Duke’s County is $107k. To be eligible for affordable housing that family could make up to $95k. For a single person that sum is in line with Barnstable County- around $70k.

Below is real data from Sandwich PD who have been advertising for lateral transfers. Much like you suggested- find candidates who have already been through an academy to transfer in.


The Sandwich PD (where I live) was advertising for civil service patrol officer transfers. The hourly rate for officers with

1 year experience:$28.21
2 years: $29.53
3 years: $30.86

These guys aren’t making $150k per year. ^

These guys aren’t either. ¥

4 years $32.20
5 years $33.16
10 years $34.00
20 years experience is $34.85

In addition: It was just released the average salary for 2010 grads in MA was $59k. Kind of hard to believe that is the “average” salary in MA for a 30 year old.

[Beachcomber4]

Originally Posted by Lampert

Yeah absolutely, roommates. You have to. Again, you do it knowing it is temporary, is not that big of a deal.
I feel much worse for people whose expected salary is still not great after years of work.

LOL my son literally lived in a closet in Manhattan in the early days of his career. And it wasn’t cheap. We told him he was building a resume and character.

[bostongymjunkie]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber4

If you go back to post 35 you will see the genesis of this thread.

The AMI for a family of 4 in Duke’s County is $107k. To be eligible for affordable housing that family could make up to $95k. For a single person that sum is in line with Barnstable County- around $70k.

Below is real data from Sandwich PD who have been advertising for lateral transfers. Much like you suggested- find candidates who have already been through an academy to transfer in.


The Sandwich PD (where I live) was advertising for civil service patrol officer transfers. The hourly rate for officers with

1 year experience:$28.21
2 years: $29.53
3 years: $30.86

These guys aren’t making $150k per year. ^

These guys aren’t either. ¥

4 years $32.20
5 years $33.16
10 years $34.00
20 years experience is $34.85

In addition: It was just released the average salary for 2010 grads in MA was $59k. Kind of hard to believe that is the “average” salary in MA for a 30 year old.

Thank you for regurgitating that. Yeah, they aren't making 150K on the Cape but when you get to the Boston MSA, many beat cops are able to earn that with OT and details. I'm also going to assume that laterals are coming in with at least 2 years experience, most probably don't have anywhere near 4 kids, and some have second earners in the household making it a little easier.

At one time there were many people looking to be cops in this state. It would be reasonable to think that someone living in less costly areas would make the commute to get on a department. For laterals they may be college cops looking to go municipal in a non civil service community, but unlikely many would do that if they were in the civil service system. More likely they might attract lateral cops looking for an agency with better working conditions, if that were the case. These are less likely scenarios nowadays as the public perception of policing has taken a nosedive coupled with the fact that working conditions are often poor and in many cases subject to poor management having a trickle down effect on morale. Even well paying departments are having difficulties recruiting. Less young people are inclined to do difficult jobs requiring para military standards, rigid procedures, and serious sometimes unpopular decisions. The publicized incidents of police misconduct and ensuing public outcry (sometimes way out of proportion) doesn't help.

As for the 2010 salaries I'm confused. Average salary for grads? You're talking recent grads? They aren't 30, and 12 years ago things were much different in MA in terms of costs. If you are indeed referring to recent grads how much do you expect they would have been making 12-13 years ago with little experience? At 30, yeah, that sounds a little low, but recent grads?

[Beachcomber4]

Originally Posted by bostongymjunkie

Thank you for regurgitating that. Yeah, they aren't making 150K on the Cape but when you get to the Boston MSA, many beat cops are able to earn that with OT and details. I'm also going to assume that laterals are coming in with at least 2 years experience, most probably don't have anywhere near 4 kids, and some have second earners in the household making it a little easier.

At one time there were many people looking to be cops in this state. It would be reasonable to think that someone living in less costly areas would make the commute to get on a department. For laterals they may be college cops looking to go municipal in a non civil service community, but unlikely many would do that if they were in the civil service system. More likely they might attract lateral cops looking for an agency with better working conditions, if that were the case. These are less likely scenarios nowadays as the public perception of policing has taken a nosedive coupled with the fact that working conditions are often poor and in many cases subject to poor management having a trickle down effect on morale. Even well paying departments are having difficulties recruiting. Less young people are inclined to do difficult jobs requiring para military standards, rigid procedures, and serious sometimes unpopular decisions. The publicized incidents of police misconduct and ensuing public outcry (sometimes way out of proportion) doesn't help.

As for the 2010 salaries I'm confused. Average salary for grads? You're talking recent grads? They aren't 30, and 12 years ago things were much different in MA in terms of costs. If you are indeed referring to recent grads how much do you expect they would have been making 12-13 years ago with little experience? At 30, yeah, that sounds a little low, but recent grads?

Agreed but the comments about affordable housing and cops
on post # 35 was specific to Barnstable County.

That income stat was the average salary in 2022 being earned by 2010 Massachusetts high school grads (assuming the majority were 18 at time of graduation they are 30 in 2022) still residing in MA. I am mot sure why that particular class was cited.

https://app.powerbigov.us/view?r=eyJ...RkODFiN2IyYSJ9