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I have BP2 with mixed features and I am a productive member of society. I also have to meet the demands of a lot of people as if I didn't have the disorder. When you said that it was hard getting your friend the support she needed, is that because she refused it, or because the demands of others interfered with it somehow? I know that with me, the people in my life (like a lot of people in society) think "if I don't see it, it doesn't exist." Therefore, they don't realize the demands that they are putting on me are too much sometimes. I know that I have to practice my boundaries with people because otherwise they will just keep asking. I think that sometimes I would have less "crashes" myself if the people around me would be more supportive of my need for self-care and had a better understanding of the impact of their demands. Don't know if your friend ever feels the same way, but that is how I feel sometimes.
After her dx, her husband seemed to feel that she should just take her medication and be as she always had been. It hit her late. After marriage and three children. She was expected to simply carry on as before.
And so she tried to. It took multiple hospitalizations from her constantly pushing herself past her new limits to wake her husband up to the fact that she needed support for herself and help with the kids before she could reach stability again.
I think that people should be able to freely share their experiences with the OP. Clearly your experiences differ drastically from mine. Your mother was nothing like my mother, apparently, though they both had BPD1.
But that doesn't negate my experiences with my mother and brother, any more than my experiences negate yours. Both happened and both our opinions are valid.
Based on my personal experiences during my entire life time (experiences that are still ongoing since my mother is still alive, and still has bipolar disorder, and so is my brother), I personally would not bet the farm on a relationship with someone with this disorder. Have I cut my mother and brother out of my life? Absolutely not, though the relationships with them have been very trying and difficult. But would I voluntarily get involved intimately with another person with the disorder? No way. Believe me, two is more than enough.
I actually did have a friend who was bipolar. She was a very good friend for years. I stuck with the friendship for a long time because I understood what she was struggling with and she was trying, doggone it. She took her meds, she knew she had a problem, and she was doing her best to deal with it. She was also a very loyal friend. But...she eventually went off her meds. Not once, but several times. The first time she went off the meds, I told her that regardless of whether she was on or off her meds, I still have personal boundaries and if we were going to be friends, she needed to respect those boundaries. She did not. I gave her several chances - and several warnings.
Finally, and to my sorrow, I had to cut off the relationship. Now - if she had been my mother or my brother, I would have had more "stick to itness" but she wasn't either of them, and with them, my plate is full. It's running over in fact.
Yesterday I asked my mom if she wanted me to pick her up and if she wanted to go to the nursery with me and then sit outside in the beautiful, beautiful spring sunshine while I planted the plants. She said, "No, I am not interested in doing that sort of thing." OK, fine - off the hook on that one! So I went about my day and thoroughly enjoyed working outside in our beautiful yard. About 5 pm, my mom called and said, "You said something earlier about coming to get me?" I said, "Mom, that was hours ago. I'm done in the yard now. It's too late for all that. I'm about to go inside and get cleaned up now." "Oh, OK," she said, "I just wondered if you wanted me to help you with anything."
I got off the phone and said to my husband, "HELP me with anything? I am literally wracking my brain to think of one single time in my life that my mom actually HELPED me with anything."
Your mom sounds great. But my mileage differs. My mom and my brother are extremely self centered. Definitely all drag and no lift. My friend 0N her meds was a good friend, but off them she was impossible to live with. My brother and mom - even on their best days, with the best meds going, are extremely difficult to deal with and give NOTHING to a relationship.
Ironically, my brother and mother have been close emotionally over the years - I guess they can relate to each other better than to other people. Anyway, the only relationship I've ever seen my mother "give" in has been her relationship with my brother - until even she had to back away from him because he was so abusive of that relationship. But once he got his meds straightened out, she resumed an affectionate relationship with him, which consisted for the most part of phone conversations and sending him money whenever he asked for it. But now she is elderly and not nearly as sharp mentally. You know what my brother actually said to me the other day in ALL SERIOUSNESS? He said, "I am offended by Mom and Dad aging because it takes away from my relationship with them. Mom isn't giving me the emotional support I need any more."
He is OFFENDED. Now that is the sort of mindset I've lived with from those two for years. My mom was "offended" (and I mean really offended - angered and feeling personally rejected) when my adopted brother (not the one with BPD1), who was adopted from a foreign country at age 3, didn't bond with her immediately - he could remember his bio mother very clearly and could remember being dropped off at the orphanage - wow, talk about emotional needs and baggage! But do you think my mom could empathize with that and with this frightened little three year old? Nope. It was all about her - her feelings, her validation. Same with my biological brother to this day. And really, my mom is still the same as well.
It's very tiring.
By the way, I agree that the description of the differences between BPD1 and BPD2 as "BPD1 is the more extreme version" is a simplistic differentiation. There's more to it of course, but that's a layman's way of describing it, and it has merit.
So while you are right to stress that BPD1 isn't necessarily the more "extreme" version - it really just depends on one's tolerance level and personality. Both types of the disorder can wreak havoc and be debilitating but BPD1 is more likely to land one in a hospital or to require involuntary commitment, so in that sense it is the more "extreme" version. But each case varies a lot and the lines are sometimes unclear.
I'm glad you had such a wonderful mom by the way. I wish my mom was more giving in her relationships but unfortunately that has not been the case with her, or with my brother. I have literally lived and thrived and excelled IN SPITE OF their involvement in my life, not because of it, and that is the very sad truth. My mother especially has probably been the biggest emotional challenge of my entire life and also the biggest emotional drain. I've had to avail myself of quite a bit of counseling over the years just to be able to maintain some sort of relationship with her, and I'm glad I did it because my dad died, and I am the only sibling willing and able to take care of her now. She is unable to care for herself and that's even on medication. There is literally no telling what would happen to her if I was out of the picture. It wouldn't be pretty. And that's how my dad felt all those years as well, and why he wouldn't divorce her. He knew - and told me often - that she would end up in a terrible situation if he left her. Her sister ended up literally stumbling naked on a beach, homeless, before she was committed and her own daughter had to become her legal guardian.
Involvement with a person with BPD of any sort is very risky and usually very emotionally trying.
One thing you might not realize due to your experiences is that a person with bp ..... not everything they do and how they are is DUE to the bp.
Just like a saint of a person can have any other illness, people struck with bp can also be *******s and have other mental health problems.
The things you describe about your mother and brother are not bp traits. While narcissistic seeming while manic, that is not a static quality of bp.
There could also be overlapping borderline traits. Another friend with bp, who denies it, went off her meds and is having issues, was diagnosed with borderline recently. I didn't say it but I was thinking 'it's both' because I've seen both.
I don't think she wants to accept bp because she doens't like the meds and the no drinking that her meds require but for BPD she gets anti-anxiety meds, that she likes. I forget her other meds now. I guess they are better than bp meds. IDK. I don't talk to her much. I find BPD to be extremely difficult to deal with (BPD is borderline personality disorder). the lies and manipulations that come with it. The me, me, mememememememememe.
I can deal with it to an extent, but when every single conversation is only about the other person and it lasts 2 or more hours with every tiny detail of her day, all with huge drama attached to every part .... I just don't even have that time in the day!
Anyway, again, the things you are describing are NOT traits of bp! your brother sounds narcissistic or borderline along with bp. My brother also says stupid **** like that (NPD). Outside of manic episodes, there is nothing in the bp criteria that talks about that level of selfishness and self-centeredness.
You're naming traits of narcissism or BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder).
Since the topic is what life is like if your partner has BP, can I ask what the prognosis is? Does the illness get worse over time even if the person is on meds? Or does it stay the same as long as you stick with medication and therapy?
Since the topic is what life is like if your partner has BP, can I ask what the prognosis is? Does the illness get worse over time even if the person is on meds? Or does it stay the same as long as you stick with medication and therapy?
Sorry for the deviation into family. No one can answer your question. It's too individual. I think that my mother's was worsened by having children. Other things that change body chemistry/hormones could go either way.
Menopause for a woman could make things go either way. Remission or worsening or neither.
Life stressors, loss. So many things affect it. My friend has to avoid caffine, too much sun, anything that is naturally mood lifting can send her too high, even with her meds on board.
She has gotten more stable with time.
Some people decompensate. I may not be using that version of the word correctly but "In medicine, decompensation is the functional deterioration of a previously working structure or system. Decompensation may occur due to fatigue, stress, illness, or old age. When a system is "compensated", it is able to function despite stressors or defects"
There is no way to know what life has in store for any of us or how it will affect a bp person. Amazingly, my mother never got worse with her mental health despite multiple stressors and diminishing quality of life health-wise.
I remember complaining to her about something and then saying I'm sorry, Mom. You have so many of your own problems. And she'd say what problems? I don't have any problems.
She wasn't delusional, her meds just kept her very stable in mood. Moreso in fact than 'normal' people dealing with what she had to.
Sorry for the deviation into family. No one can answer your question. It's too individual. I think that my mother's was worsened by having children. Other things that change body chemistry/hormones could go either way.
Yeah, I kind of figured it would depend on the person. My ex was diagnosed in her early 40s. She's now in her mid 40s, which means menopause isn't too far away. I can't help but wonder what's in store for her. She was also severely overweight. She may have lost weight since I last saw her. But I know that for women who are overweight, there's a big risk of developing things like heart disease and certain forms of cancer. I worried a lot about her health when we were together. And even though I'm no longer with her, it's hard to just turn that part of my brain off. I hope things get better for her.
Since the topic is what life is like if your partner has BP, can I ask what the prognosis is? Does the illness get worse over time even if the person is on meds? Or does it stay the same as long as you stick with medication and therapy?
My son was diagnosed with bi-polar when he was 14. It runs in my family. I knew the signs and so we got on the right track. He was diagnosed with epilepsy when he was 10.
He is now in his early 30's. He is independent, in his own place, caring for himself but we are always available for him. He lives about 20 minutes away.
He has ALWAYS been on his medicine. Always. When he was 18 he picked up smoking because his friends did. When he was 21 he was gleeful over the fact that he could drink. So he did. That was a trying time. Alcohol doesn't work with him. At all. And it's difficult because he was still at home, had a job, yet he was trying to exert his independence from his parents.
He's been in and out of the hospital. He goes in and admits himself when he knows he needs help. In his late teens he was more suicidal and I wonder if it's not just social pressure but hormones and growing up yet on meds that help but we all know meds have so many side effects.
The trick is finding a doctor AND therapist they love.
Presently he is on disability but works a part time job. Because of stress he can't handle anything but minimum wage. He joined a church and goes regularly. He helps his neighbor, mowing his lawn every week as well as his own. This neighbor is on dialysis and my son drives him to his appointments as his truck broke down and can't afford to fix it.
My son lost his friends after they visited him in the mental hospital. Three friends. Just dropped him. It wasn't that he acted out around them, they couldn't believe he was in a place like that and couldn't handle it. One was a police officer so I could sort of understand the conflict of interest there.
He admits himself to the hospital when he can't handle life and when he's there his meds are changed out and he's a bit fragile at first but then he goes back to his regular self. He is happy, he is helpful, he is a good person and has had to grow up knowing he has epilepsy and bi-polar. His condition has changed some but overall he's doing really well. We don't know how long he'll be independent but we'll always be there for him. And his brothers said they'll be there for him when we're not.
One thing is we always told him that when he's sick to go to a doctor. None of this self diagnosis and picking up stuff at the grocery store. He just can't do that with the amount of meds he's on. And when he's sick it's surprising how out of whack he gets.
The big problem I've seen with anyone with a mental illness is . . . They don't recognize they're sick. They feel like they're fine. It's like a drunk saying they're not an alcoholic, that they couldn't have done what everyone said happened because your mind was off line with drink. Same with bi-polar. The mind forgets, it can't remember. The best advice we were given is if you know someone that is bi-polar is to get them to focus on one thing. And then focus on another and work towards goals. Know your stress levels.
Bi-polar doesn't affect intelligence. But stress is another thing.
My son was diagnosed with bi-polar when he was 14. It runs in my family. I knew the signs and so we got on the right track. He was diagnosed with epilepsy when he was 10.
He is now in his early 30's. He is independent, in his own place, caring for himself but we are always available for him. He lives about 20 minutes away.
He has ALWAYS been on his medicine. Always. When he was 18 he picked up smoking because his friends did. When he was 21 he was gleeful over the fact that he could drink. So he did. That was a trying time. Alcohol doesn't work with him. At all. And it's difficult because he was still at home, had a job, yet he was trying to exert his independence from his parents.
He's been in and out of the hospital. He goes in and admits himself when he knows he needs help. In his late teens he was more suicidal and I wonder if it's not just social pressure but hormones and growing up yet on meds that help but we all know meds have so many side effects.
The trick is finding a doctor AND therapist they love.
Presently he is on disability but works a part time job. Because of stress he can't handle anything but minimum wage. He joined a church and goes regularly. He helps his neighbor, mowing his lawn every week as well as his own. This neighbor is on dialysis and my son drives him to his appointments as his truck broke down and can't afford to fix it.
My son lost his friends after they visited him in the mental hospital. Three friends. Just dropped him. It wasn't that he acted out around them, they couldn't believe he was in a place like that and couldn't handle it. One was a police officer so I could sort of understand the conflict of interest there.
He admits himself to the hospital when he can't handle life and when he's there his meds are changed out and he's a bit fragile at first but then he goes back to his regular self. He is happy, he is helpful, he is a good person and has had to grow up knowing he has epilepsy and bi-polar. His condition has changed some but overall he's doing really well. We don't know how long he'll be independent but we'll always be there for him. And his brothers said they'll be there for him when we're not.
One thing is we always told him that when he's sick to go to a doctor. None of this self diagnosis and picking up stuff at the grocery store. He just can't do that with the amount of meds he's on. And when he's sick it's surprising how out of whack he gets.
The big problem I've seen with anyone with a mental illness is . . . They don't recognize they're sick. They feel like they're fine. It's like a drunk saying they're not an alcoholic, that they couldn't have done what everyone said happened because your mind was off line with drink. Same with bi-polar. The mind forgets, it can't remember. The best advice we were given is if you know someone that is bi-polar is to get them to focus on one thing. And then focus on another and work towards goals. Know your stress levels.
Bi-polar doesn't affect intelligence. But stress is another thing.
Feel-good brain chemicals are flooding through them. Like a person on 'upper' drugs. It's not that they are forgetting, although they partially are, they are caught up in the brain chemicals telling them they are doing great.
We are all controlled by our brain chemicals in that way. People w/o BP just don't realize it ....... we feel above it, but no one is.
Does being bipolar make it harder to be truly independent? My ex was on her own for 20 years, living far from her family. But after being diagnosed with BP and becoming trapped in debt, she moved back home. And now she feels like she's better off there because she has her family closeby to provide support. I get the sense that she doesn't quite trust herself to be on her own again, given everything that's happened. That's a shame too because it's not like she's still in her 20s. To be in your 40s and still feel like you need to rely on your parents isn't exactly how most of us would want to end up. And her parents are in their 70s and retired so there's going to come a point where they can't help her. I get that having a strong support system is especially important if you have bipolar. But does that mean you're better off staying close to them? And what happens when that support is no longer there?
Does being bipolar make it harder to be truly independent? My ex was on her own for 20 years, living far from her family. But after being diagnosed with BP and becoming trapped in debt, she moved back home. And now she feels like she's better off there because she has her family closeby to provide support. I get the sense that she doesn't quite trust herself to be on her own again, given everything that's happened. That's a shame too because it's not like she's still in her 20s. To be in your 40s and still feel like you need to rely on your parents isn't exactly how most of us would want to end up. And her parents are in their 70s and retired so there's going to come a point where they can't help her. I get that having a strong support system is especially important if you have bipolar. But does that mean you're better off staying close to them? And what happens when that support is no longer there?
My wife raised her two daughters with no support from their father for 16 years during which time she had a successful midwifery practice, opened and ran a birth center with a partner, went back to school at a university and then became a political and legislative analyst which she did until retirement. By the time I asked her out she'd been single for 18 years, concentrating on raising and supporting herself and her daughters Talk about independent, she personified it. I used to describe her as "delightfully independent" and still do. She decidedly rose above her diagnosis. I'm sure others do as well. For one, Hollywood is full of them. They can be most creative.
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