why do you think downtown dadeland failed? (Miami, Miami Beach: 2013, rental)

[shamrockfisher]

Originally Posted by bale002

The Dadeland area beats both Brickell and Coral Gables with a stick in terms of the very close proximity to a wide and deep variety of retail shopping, and it beats Brickell with a stick in terms of the close proximity to a wide and deep variety of educational facilities.

To be sure, the designs are lacking in terms of family comfort, but, again, compare that to, say, a 1930s building in UES Manhattan (Atlanta?, you've got to be kidding me, right?). And yes, it would be nice to have some significant green park or some other developed open public space within walking distance of the immediate area, but in the US, the mall is the piazza, so make the best of it.

But there is the upside too: would you rather live in the swamp, or in extreme humid heat in summer (e.g. Jacksonville, Atlanta, or even New York which, by the way, gets blasted with hurricanes too) and/or in freezing effing cold in winter?

Dadeland beats the Gables with a wide and deep variety of retail shopping? Not true.

Beats Brickell for education? If you are in the condo market for either area you are probably not raising children of school age within these units so educational options is not a factor.

1930s building in UES? People who buy or rent pre-war in manhattan specifically want to for a number of reasons and there are many other quality and state of the art buildings within the UES or the rest of Manhattan to choose from. Yes, Atlanta variety as well.

Weather? Miami is the capital of extreme humid heat for more than just the summer months. In NYC you have heat spells occasionally but the rest of the summer can be quite pleasant. "Effing cold winter" means quick access to skiing which yes, most rafters, may not be interested in.

And no, the mall in the US is not a piazza. Most sought after urban areas have plenty of planned green space that is utilized.

Bottom line, Dadeland places you in the middle of unicorporated dade county and a hapless Kendall area that has gone the way of Hialeah.

[flyers29]

Originally Posted by straight shooter

The main question is why pay a premium to live within walking distance to dadeland mall. It is not like you are going to go there everyday. You pay a premium for a water view, a safe area or a close commute to work. Those are things that you will take advantage of and enjoy everyday.

I think it's moreso the newness of the units and walkability to Metrorail.

[LIFL]

I don't think it even failed, to be honest. I mean Macy's expanded at the mall, the metro rail is still there, and they are building again.

[bale002]

Originally Posted by isles20

I don't think it even failed, to be honest. I mean Macy's expanded at the mall, the metro rail is still there, and they are building again.

Well, I think that some people here are focusing restrictively on downtown Dadeland, and judging it over a five-year period on the criteria of late-night watering holes, beach access and green acres.

They do not recognize a Dadeland area which encompasses the entire area that I mentioned in a previous post, nor the amenities of the new condo buildings (including their own green areas within the building complex) which is the total environment of the people who actually live in the Dadeland area, not those who casually drive by a few times a year expecting to see late-night watering holes, beach access and green acres within a five-year period, as if by magic.

Realistically, again realistically, what do you expect?

The reality is that people are indeed paying the rents and the buy prices that prevail on the market in the area, for all its shortcomings which they know in advance. But such people do not include some of those who have posted in this and similar threads and expressed judgment based on their own wishlist, candy canes-and-unicorns criteria, and not based on what the area really offers as it stands right now.

But that's okay, all points of view are useful, that's why we have a market, however distorted it may be.

[LIFL]

Originally Posted by bale002

Well, I think that some people here are focusing restrictively on downtown Dadeland, and judging it over a five-year period on the criteria of late-night watering holes, beach access and green acres.

They do not recognize a Dadeland area which encompasses the entire area that I mentioned in a previous post, nor the amenities of the new condo buildings (including their own green areas within the building complex) which is the total environment of the people who actually live in the Dadeland area, not those who casually drive by a few times a year expecting to see late-night watering holes, beach access and green acres within a five-year period, as if by magic.

Realistically, again realistically, what do you expect?

Keep in mind, New York took around 5 CENTURIES to develop. Miami, is even 100 years old. 5 years is a really short period to judge a place.

[Chelito23]

Fail is a strong word. Let's say that this core area of Kendall, within walking distance of Dadeland, has lots of potential. However, it is overpriced because for what it costs there, you can find comparable or nicer places, closer to the beach, downtown, otherwork places, other metrorail stops, etc. The area lacks green space and open parks as well. Usually, at the coast, density is the price you pay for the water views or beaches. In Downtown Kendall, you have the density with the "benefit" of a mall as your open space and two metrorail stations. People just want more, especially in that price range. IMO the bottom line is that it is overpriced for what it is, they targeted a demographic that has too many other options with better amenities and they are reluctant to refocus their project to local buyers. They want their units sold to foreign investors in cash. They will have limited success with this model sans the undergrounding of US 1 and Kendall Dr and conversion into public greenspace. They should cut rices, target Young professionals and price what the local market will bare. Almost all projects are targeted at investors, the truely succesful ones are the ones where locals actually live and take pride in. If that happened in Dadeland you would see the area transform very quickly. In the meantime it will just stagnate to the extent that it has.

[himain]

Way too expensive. Who wants to spend $2100+ on a 2/2 looking at a mall???

[bale002]

Originally Posted by Chelito23

they targeted a demographic that has too many other options with better amenities and they are reluctant to refocus their project to local buyers. They want their units sold to foreign investors in cash.

You contradict yourself. Which is it, local buyers or foreign investors with cash?

Actually it is both and many other types of buyers and renters: students, professionals, retirees, families with children.

What are you people talking about?

Again, both the buy/sell market and the rental market are fluid and liquid, and on an uptrend over the past 18 months or so (QEIII induced or not), there is an about average amount of distressed units, the financial statements of the condo buildings are in relatively good shape.

Have any of you people who posted on this thread analyzed the financial statements of any of the condo units in the Dadeland Area? Yes or no? Actually the one in trouble is in South Miami.

People - all of the above - students, professionals, retirees, families with children, people from Miami, people from other places in Florida, people from other places in the US, people from Latin America, people from Europe, people from Russia, people from the Middle East, people from India, people from Japan, did I miss some part of the Earth? - are, right now, as we write, in actuality paying current market prices in the Dadeland Area, there is not much inventory, there are not many vacancies, and they are constructing more dwellings in the Dadeland Area right now, as we write, - condos, rental apartments, and single family homes - and they will all sell/rent at current market prices, maybe a bit lower or maybe a bit higher - unless the economy as a whole suddenly drops into a deep recession (1% or 2% contraction in GDP).

To be sure, the Dadeland Area is not the most vibrant small area on the planet, but who would expect it after five years, especially after five years of recession and only very slow growth, and the outlook of continued very slow growth, probably for a decade, nationwide, perhaps even globally.

Again, what on earth are you people talking about?

What do you expect? Really? Paradise?

Let's play a game: let each one describe his own fantasy neighborhood, in terms of amenities, price and weather, then see exactly where that is, not in the land of unicorns and candy canes, but on the earth, then let him actually live there, not just drive by once in a while.

I'll bet that it won't be on this earth, it ain't gonna happen, no way, no how, nowhere.

[hurricaneMan1992]

Originally Posted by straight shooter

The main question is why pay a premium to live within walking distance to dadeland mall. It is not like you are going to go there everyday. You pay a premium for a water view, a safe area or a close commute to work. Those are things that you will take advantage of and enjoy everyday.

Two of the above (safety and proximity to work or University via Metrorail), maybe even all 3 if you're on the upper floors! Seriously...Dadeland isn't just Dadeland Mall anymore!

What's still needed? Better pedestrian friendliness and connectedness. For example, a pedestrian bridge from 77th ave over the Palmetto connecting to downtown Dadeland and the Metrorail would help ALOT. Re-development of the east side of US1 and west side down to 98th st as urban mixed use with pedestrian bridges across US1 and connecting to Metrorail--at platform level whenever possible. There are actually plenty of affordable townhouses and apartments/condos within walking distance of Dadeland, but poorly connected. It would probably take an incorporated City of Kendall or Dadeland to do this, as the County has no idea how to do urban neighborhood-level improvement.

[bale002]

Originally Posted by hurricaneMan1992

Two of the above (safety and proximity to work or University via Metrorail), maybe even all 3 if you're on the upper floors! Seriously...Dadeland isn't just Dadeland Mall anymore!

What's still needed? Better pedestrian friendliness and connectedness. For example, a pedestrian bridge from 77th ave over the Palmetto connecting to downtown Dadeland and the Metrorail would help ALOT. Re-development of the east side of US1 and west side down to 98th st as urban mixed use with pedestrian bridges across US1 and connecting to Metrorail--at platform level whenever possible. There are actually plenty of affordable townhouses and apartments/condos within walking distance of Dadeland, but poorly connected. It would probably take an incorporated City of Kendall or Dadeland to do this, as the County has no idea how to do urban neighborhood-level improvement.

Finally somebody who's talking sense. I would prefer a separate Dadeland incorporation, if any, but I don't see what Kendall past 87th Ave or so has to do with it.

It would be interesting if MDC could occupy one of the buildings downtown Dadeland to use as an extension campus, perhaps an adult education center.

To be sure, some green space, among the proposed inter-connectedness, would add to all the already existing plethora of amenities, such as very close proximity to a very wide and deep range of retail, very clearly beating Coral Gables with a stick on objective measurement, close proximity to educational facilities of all levels, private and public, from pre-K to graduate school and internationally renowned research, close proximity to an intercontinental airport, close proximity to at least three hospitals and all kinds of highly specialized medical services, including cutting-edge cyberknife surgery, close proximity to churches, and even close proximity to at least half a dozen parks of various sizes, and within the condo communities pools, gyms and even some internal green space.

Gee, what a failure!

Again, it is really hard to believe that some of the posters on this thread actually live in Miami, let alone the Dadeland Area, what on earth are they talking about?