[magellan]

I think I need another hit on that bong because I'm not following any of this.

[Indentured Servant]

I think you and most people don't really get it. We were born into society where tiny % of people holds claim on the bulk of resources and production capacity, the rest sells their arses to owners of means in order to survive. They (owning class) and only they decide whether 90% of population (and you) would eat tonight. In a way 90% of population gave their lives in the hands of top 10% (while chanting how free they (90%) are and waving flag each time top 10% decides to bomb another 3rd world country into the dust).

Yep...I already knew that. Its been that way every since we left communal tribes and clans and embarked upon a system of private ownwership of natural resources, such as land and whats found in and under it. In the distant past people could and did live off the land. Now one really has no option for survival but to indenture themselves to the "system" (why do you think I call myself "indentured Servant"....if you don't think I understand this). I know capitalism is simply a trojan horse for exploitation as exploitation is historically the most productive economic system.


Nobody even thinks how absurd it is for a Michigander to have (or not to have) a meal on his table (or table for that matter) depending on the price of labor in China. It's totally insane, irrational situation. 90% placed their right to exist into the hands of top 10%, top 10% have no other obligations other than maximizing their own gains, The End. It's not even slavery. Slave owners cared for their slaves (most of the time). It's some kind of post modern slavery arrangement.

I don't understand your point....however, I don't think it disproves or debunks anything previously stated in favor of the direction of the Michigan economy relative to other states (China is not a US State).

You all keep dreams of luring bottom feeding corporations back to MI alive. It's long race to the bottom considering going wages (and 200 millions of jobless) in China. Alas, I really doubt American wage units have brains and guts to force owning classes into more rational arrangements. Not in my life time, or ever. Rush doesn't make $50mils/year for doing nothing

You offer no alternative to bottom feeding corporations (and what standard of living the alternative offers). We exist is a system driven by "greed" and it does not matter if it is a small business or large transnational corporation.......they are all built on the business model of getting more out of something than they have to put into it. That is what PROFIT is.....getting more out than one puts in. If an entity gets out more than what it has put in and it has relationships with other entities, then one or more of the other entities has gotten less out than what they put in. That is the methodology of the business model....getting more out than what you put it.

[Ummagumma]

We live in a society where everyone's out for a short term gain and nobody is interested in a long term perspective, especially if it means some harsh sacrifices in short term.
Businesses are in business of making money. CEOs are, for the most part, interested in making money in immediate term (next 3 quarters). Not just because they are mainly interested in helping themselves first (a natural human tendency) but also because the major shareholders want immediate return on their investment, otherwise they will move their money elsewhere and CEO will lose his job. Politicians have to keep happy both their donors and their electorate (btw, it's sickening just how cheaply our politicians can be bought). The electorate - you and me included - are for most part absolutely ignorant of political process, basics of democratic society, laws and history of this country (otherwise we wouldn't see these "it's a great democracy, if you don't like it here leave" posts all over the internet.) They are also wonderfully disinterested in politics and would rather not bother voting at all. So there's little wonder the foundation of the country - the economy - is crumbling to dust and nobody does anything.

The only way to compete with Chinese would be by imposing import tariffs, providing export subsidies, and basically closing off the market for non-Western companies - and this is exactly what the Chinese themselves do. We can't compete in poverty. However this goes against the proclaimed ideal of "free trade", which as any ideal only works on paper. At the very least, the West could demand that China must free its currency, and lift internal restrictions on western imports or western competition on Chinese soil (you can't start a car company in China unless you partner with a Chinese company). However this will never happen, read the reasons above - our politicians are gutless and easily bought, and our citizens are lazy and ignorant. So, things may improve in the near future, but in the long run we (and the Europe) are in deep doo-doo unless we as a country grow a set of b@lls.

[bendover4me]

I don't buy that this recession is over or on the mend. There are no real long term gains being made. I think it may very well drop back to losing jobs and from the recent news its losing ground again. Michigan is not on the tip of the come back, it just has fallen so far and deeper than other areas that it looks like its gaining when other start to catch up. I would only consider moving to MI if I were retired, or had other income to live on, and wanted to buy a home at 1/3rd value, BTW all those who said that their homes were selling nicely had their heads up their a s s, and two loved long cold winters. I think this winter is going to make up for last winter so get those shovels out boys. For me I am waiting to see if I can predict bottom and head out to palm trees and sandy beaches that do not freeze up for half the year.

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by bendover4me

For me I am waiting to see if I can predict bottom and head out to palm trees and sandy beaches that do not freeze up for half the year.

See ya!

Looks like our resident troll is back with yet another screen name that is 1/2 vulgar and still nothing useful to add to a discussion. I would think that after being banned a dozen or so times already they would learn how NOT to be so blatantly stupid.

[magellan]

Holy crap. I was looking up jobs at Gentex (Zeeland, MI) for someone and found they have 54 listings, mostly engineering right now:

Gentex Careers - What We Do

If you know anyone looking for an engineering job, you might send this link. Zeeland is only about 30 minutes from most of Grand Rapids near Holland and the lakeshore (for those who haven't heard of it).