Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm not military, but I do read up on this stuff from time to time on wikis, online, and from documentaries online and on TV. I've also picked the brains of various service members from time to time, so that's my source at least....
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133
What exactly do they do at the service academies? I am including both the federal ones such as West Pont and private ones like the Citadel. Is it basically the same style curriculum as a regular 4 yr university?
Not quite. They teach academics, but they also teach a lot of military related stuff as well. Orders, traditions, military history, procedures, navigation, how to use firearms like rifles, etc. Your typical public uni or otherwise does NOT cover these at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133
Do they teach you any war fighting skills, any strategy? Do you learn how to actually command troops in battle?
If not actually so, they seem to lay the groundwork for that. Folks who graduate from the US Naval Academy have strong emphasis in military leadership roles.
I'm sure they cover war college, some of them have The Art Of War as required reading, battle concepts like mass, transport logistics and supply chain management of armies, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133
From what I gather from wiki, is it really is geared more toward academia, with boot camp mixed in. It does not seem like very advanced training, you think future military officers should and could receive in 4 years time. Apparently, only during the summer time, they have what can be considered their version of an internship, each cadet can go and spend time with an actual military unit doing what they do.
But seriously, they have 4 years, and should they not be getting even more in-depth military training like almost special forces like? If not, then why spend 4 years there?
Heck why is Uni or even High school 4 years? I will start another thread for that.
The boot camp itself is already far more than what they do at trad. unis. I know with West Point, they cram as much activity, drills and studying as humanly possible as they can in a single day. They also emphasis discipline, like having a clean room (at unis, college professors don't inspect your dorms).
If you're going to use 4 years as a yardstick for being a length of time where something really meaningful gets accomplished, traditional 4-year colleges aren't really that much better. If you're studying engineering, comp-sci, business... whatever, being a well rounded student by also taking Viking history, music education, French 101, and other similar electives hardly seems pertinent. Cutting that out can easily save you 2 years of time. Plus, the fact that despite doing a 4-year degree, one still needs to secure internships to be able to better get jobs just shows how trad. colleges aren't all that. The stuff you do doesn't even count as experience! You'd think they'd change the cirriculum to better reflect what a company would like out of a new hire!
As far as special forces go, that requires separate training. Don't know the timelines, but their entry tests weed out alot of applicants (rangers, green beret, SEALs, sniper schools, etc. Some more harsh than others)
Academy cadets are taught the STEM majors. They live and function within the strict military lifestyle and etiquette.
Leadership in the military has an entirely different meaning than what leadership means in civilian vocabulary. Personnel management is not generally among the skills of academy graduates. Officers tend to rely on senior NCOs to manage the work force. Leadership is more high-level, like setting goals, and stay out of the way, as the NCOs manage the work force to carry out those goals.
They will each have a very solid education of Science, Technology, Engineering Math. To fill in the Social Studies and History needs of an education they get Military History and etiquette.
At least in the Army, I know that West Point grads get their in depth training through the officer training schools/courses such as Officer Basic. They attend these schools alongside officers commissioned through ROTC and OCS. You have to remember that Army officers are assigned to a specific specialty upon commission (e.g. infantry, armor, quartermaster, signal, etc.), so "in-depth training needs" can't be assessed until then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133
Then why not let them choose upon entering the academies? Arent they already sworn in by then anyways?
Officers do not get to choose they get preferences with the needs of the service thrown in. So they have an incentive to be the top in their respective class to get first shot at what they want. And the needs of the service can change rapidly and four years can be an eternity.
Back in the early 80s there were four infantry officers forced into my tank battalion as the Army was changing the number of allotted slots from an Army configured to fight in Vietnam to one configured to fight in the Fulda and Hof Gaps in armored vehicles. And many of the officers, both West Pointers and ROTC at Fort Knox for Armor Officers Basic would admit that tanks was not their first choice. Sometimes I got the feeling that only theforign officers ans Marines who had already commanded a platoon before moving to tanks were there as first choice.
Their purpose is to create military officers. Do you really think any uni would be able to do that? West Point and those other military academies are for the elite of the elite in any case, you need a Congressman to recommend you, so there really is no comparison to a regular uni.
But a military officer needs to be good at military matters. Are they learning this at the academies? Do they spend those 4 years honing combat skills, or tactics and strategies? Or are they just studying academic subjects in a classroom? I am not trying to critique the schools. I just want to find out more.
But a military officer needs to be good at military matters. Are they learning this at the academies? Do they spend those 4 years honing combat skills, or tactics and strategies? Or are they just studying academic subjects in a classroom? I am not trying to critique the schools. I just want to find out more.
Such as?
You'll have courses in strategy and tactics (in truth that never ends during your entire career and becomes more detailed from a planning perspective as you move up in rank).
Combat skills? Such as? Again, those are follow on. The skills needed for surface warfare (and differ between classes of ships) are different than those uses by submarines are different than those used by aviators (and again, what type of aircraft? The mission of a helicopter squadron is different than that of an EF-18 squadron, which is different than that of a squadron of F/A-18s).
As mentioned, the prospective officer doesn't get his assignment for further training until deep into his Senior year, although you tend to go towards it during the summer assignments.
The Academies don't have summers off, the people are inserted into the fleet in varied roles.
But a military officer needs to be good at military matters. Are they learning this at the academies? Do they spend those 4 years honing combat skills, or tactics and strategies? Or are they just studying academic subjects in a classroom? I am not trying to critique the schools. I just want to find out more.
yes they are learning military matters to put in simply.
They put in 12 hour days filled with every skill and knowledge 'training' they will need, then they do their homework. That includes weekends, unless they get a pass. And for fun, they get to go for a two mile run.
Then they go to 6 months or more specific training followed by going to a unit where the new little LT/whatever service rank is led by the hand by a good NCO filling in whatever gaps he/she might have.
If this is why you are asking:
If a person truly wants a military career, then there is nothing but to try to get into and succeed in a service academy. The education, networking, and opportunities given are premier. If you are halfway good, you will become better.
Going ROTC is good particularly at some schools with a strong military tradition (e.g. Texas A&M). And a good person can do well and have a good career, some stellar with ROTC. So if you can't do the academy route, you can do well in ROTC.
But a military officer needs to be good at military matters. Are they learning this at the academies? Do they spend those 4 years honing combat skills, or tactics and strategies? Or are they just studying academic subjects in a classroom? I am not trying to critique the schools. I just want to find out more.
They leave the academy as a Lieutenant, not a Captain or Colonel. The training there is not the be all and end all, it is just a start. They would be in a more military environment then a ROTC cadet or someone who decided to try to get a commission after finishing college and goes to Officer Candidate School. And the Midshipman/Cadet may or may not get more time on military studies then a cadet in ROTC does. In any case they are primarily college students and it would take WWII to leave college early to go to their basic officer's branch course or the invasion from outer space to have them committed directly to battle from their college training fields.
Not quite. They teach academics, but they also teach a lot of military related stuff as well. Orders, traditions, military history, procedures, navigation, how to use firearms like rifles, etc. Your typical public uni or otherwise does NOT cover these at all.
ROTC cadets do get this at university through military science classes. Military science becomes their minor.
Lets say that one civil engineer or maybe a physicist from Indiana state university; gets a commission in the US Navy as an ensign, then attends OCS and Sub School, and reports onboard a nuclear submarine.
While another civil engineer or physicist from the Naval Academy; gets a commission in the US Navy as an ensign, then attends OCS and Sub School, and then reports onboard a nuclear submarine.
Those two ensigns will go through the same process on that boat. They will study every system, they will stand watch, they will sit through lectures and briefings in the wardroom. They will both fill positions as 'Division Officers' over a chief and a division of crewmen.
The Navy Academy graduate will get some 'boost' from other academy graduates, who will expect more from him, and they will also feel obligated to help him as fraternity brothers.
They will both make mistakes. that they will both have to cover-up.
They will both order crewmen to do things [after all they are officers and the crew are enlisted] and in each case they will be reprimanded for doing so.
In the long run, the differences in these two men's career path will be very minor.
How they react after their mistakes, how quickly they can adapt to the environment, without any permanent bad marks on their record, determines their advancement. If either of them make any innocent mistake, purely out of ignorance, that can not be covered-up, then that men's career will be over very shortly.
The advantage an academy graduate has over a state university graduate is minor, it does exist. Very much of the careers of junior officers is all about rolling the dice, a bad roll and your career is over. Rarely do these mistakes have anything to do with what the officer actually did [or could have known to do].
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
