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I was on the inside for 20 yrs. I know how it goes. These people are not immune to gussying up their public statements. I am not saying, they wanted to get him alive but effed it up and had to make up a story. But that possibility is not beyond a reasonable conclusion. And Panetta is nothing special. He'd do what any of them would.
And btw I would submit that we did not want to take him alive because then we'd have to do something with him. Beside just feeding him. He'd be an ongoing international freak show. It'd never stop. Then we'd have to kill him or make him commit suicide in his cell kind of thing. No, I figure we just wanted the revenge factor.
I have to respectfully disagree. The mission's operation was such that a Kill Only order was out of line with the methods deployed. I submit that the order was Capture (and with all Capture orders the caveat "if possible" was attached) but that was compromised with the helicopter crash. With the loss of an immediate disorienting surprise insertion, the compound had come alive. I belive at that point the objective (always fluid) was still intelligence but with new Capture or Kill, whichever would aid in the successful extraction of the team. A Kill mission, as we have seen often, could be accomplished remotely and in such a way that no definitive finger could be pointed at us. Arms on the ground is only when collateral damages is too great a risk (not in this case) or when we intend to depart with a prize. But, this was not my specialty and I was not there so I could be completely wrong in my assessment.
Instead of sending in SEALS, why did they not just get some elite snipers together, drop them off, near his compound, and use their night vision scopes and just wait till he came out, shoot him and then have them picked up? Snipers are trained to be stealthy and very patient after all, so wouldn't have been better to just have some snipers just lay down and chill until he came out and blow his brains out instead of just storming the place?
I am just a civilian with very limited knowledge about the military operations, but my opinion is that,
NO ONE really knows the details regarding a particular mission except the people who are involved with it. I think the trendy ‘sniper’ talk of today - is too much of the Hollywood concept about being a sniper - like the old time World War Two movies where the hero holds off the entire enemy army with just one hand grenade and a 45 - in basic it was called “being John Wayne”.
If I remember this correctly and please DO correct me if I am wrong, A sniper has to not only be an excellent shot, but it’s usually a 2 person team. (a sniper plus a spotter)
To get an active sniper involved, I assume many factors need to be considered. For example: Once that team is on the ground…how long can they reasonably lay in position? Are they static? are they moving around? if they are moving, what happens when a team inevitably gets captured? How does the main unit communicate with them? where do they hide their excrement? How does a sniper team stay healthy? The list goes on and on.
I think a lot of people (civilians and some military service members even) tend to glorify the snipers based on the movie American sniper. (NOT saying or implying you are).
Snipers are vulnerable like any other asset. In particular, an urban setting poses great risk for a sniper. Yes, they can operate with great effect…BUT the more they shoot, the greater their risk. Also, distance and line of sight are the friend of the sniper…deny that and the sniper loses a lot of its capability.
A sniper is used to take out high priority targets at a great distance. They engage specific targets. Each mission is different, snipers are not the magic solution to all missions.
Last but not the least, this particular mission you are discussing involved with a team of specialists in the SEAL team. It is a team effort. My guess is that there is at least one person in that team have had the sniper training. It is true that only one bullet is needed to kill one person, but EVERY special military mission is about team effort.
Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 08-15-2019 at 06:59 AM..
I think a lot of people (civilians and some military service members even) tend to glorify the snipers based on the movie American sniper. (NOT saying or implying you are).
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It happened long before then. All the special forces have had their time in the sun as the premiere best of the best for your fictional character. It might be SEAL Team 6, I know its not actually called that at the moment but around the early to mid 90s from Tom Berenger's movies through Bob Lee Swagger novels it was the USMC Scout Sniper. In the all character were ex special forces world if he was a Marine he was either Recon and/or a Scout Sniper. Because the character acted alone or part of a two man buddy team made for a better back story than being part of a super squad, all as good as the hero protagonist mowing down scores of enemy.
Just before 9/11 in the peace dividend era USAF Pararescue Jumpers were emerging as the all it military character from the real life as opposed to training rescues as portrayed in The Perfect Storm. Or at least mission was not top secret so we got to know about it as the greater society
And btw I would submit that we did not want to take him alive because then we'd have to do something with him. Beside just feeding him. He'd be an ongoing international freak show. It'd never stop. Then we'd have to kill him or make him commit suicide in his cell kind of thing. No, I figure we just wanted the revenge factor.
Agree with this assessment completely. Had he been captured alive, which I doubt he would have ever allowed to happen, just what would we have done with him?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiko
It happened long before then. All the special forces have had their time in the sun as the premiere best of the best for your fictional character. It might be SEAL Team 6, I know its not actually called that at the moment but around the early to mid 90s from Tom Berenger's movies through Bob Lee Swagger novels it was the USMC Scout Sniper. In the all character were ex special forces world if he was a Marine he was either Recon and/or a Scout Sniper. Because the character acted alone or part of a two man buddy team made for a better back story than being part of a super squad, all as good as the hero protagonist mowing down scores of enemy.
Just before 9/11 in the peace dividend era USAF Pararescue Jumpers were emerging as the all it military character from the real life as opposed to training rescues as portrayed in The Perfect Storm. Or at least mission was not top secret so we got to know about it as the greater society
The group you hear very little about is Delta. They do the same type of stuff as the SEAL Team 6 guys.
People talk smack about the AF, but not about Para-rescue or combat air controllers.
It happened long before then. All the special forces have had their time in the sun as the premiere best of the best for your fictional character. It might be SEAL Team 6, I know its not actually called that at the moment but around the early to mid 90s from Tom Berenger's movies through Bob Lee Swagger novels it was the USMC Scout Sniper. In the all character were ex special forces world if he was a Marine he was either Recon and/or a Scout Sniper. Because the character acted alone or part of a two man buddy team made for a better back story than being part of a super squad, all as good as the hero protagonist mowing down scores of enemy.
Mid '80's - '90's it was Chuck Norris playing in Delta Force
A more clear answer - sniper not applicable in that situation for various reasons (all of these are kind of obvious) -
1.) is that he was in a building and was not exposed to sniper fire,
2.) We needed positive I.D., which means close in work and then recovery of the body (otherwise we could have just as well sent in a cruise missile or guided bomb),
3.) Nowhere and no time for the sniper to set up safely to await a shot since he was likewise in a walled in complex and it was get-in and get-out. I don't know if there was any building nearby with any height the overlooks into the complex, I don't think so.
Plus a sniper role isn't really assasination, they are more "force multipliers".
I remember vaguely reading something about this. From my understanding, they highly suspected his location based on surveillance of the compound. There was no visual identification to confirm 100% that he was actually in the building. He's stayed in there all the time, everything he needed was brought to him, so there would never have been a time for a sniper to take him out as he didn't venture outside at all.
Another issue is that the neighborhood wasn't exactly U.S. friendly. If any hint of U.S. forces were detected, bin Laden would have been informed pretty quick and whisked out of there.
A more clear answer - sniper not applicable in that situation for various reasons (all of these are kind of obvious) -
1.) is that he was in a building and was not exposed to sniper fire,
2.) We needed positive I.D., which means close in work and then recovery of the body (otherwise we could have just as well sent in a cruise missile or guided bomb),
3.) Nowhere and no time for the sniper to set up safely to await a shot since he was likewise in a walled in complex and it was get-in and get-out. I don't know if there was any building nearby with any height the overlooks into the complex, I don't think so.
Plus a sniper role isn't really assasination, they are more "force multipliers".
The bolded is spot on from what all my husband has told me. Especially with his own personal experience.
So much more in involved in situations like this than we will ever know.
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