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So how long will U.S. forces continue in Afghan after Biden’s pullout? Will it be thru 2024? Are there metrics to determine when the last of the forces will leave?
The Embassy needs to be protected, along with HKIA (Hama Karzai Intl Airport). The plan was to keep 1k or more troops there to stop it all from spinning out of control.
But the Taliban is at the door right now. They hold roughly half the districts right now, and they are closing in on 17 of 34 provincial capitals. They also control 90% of the borders.
What’s ironic is that we have hit the Taliban and destroyed our own equipment, which was taken from the Afghan military. Where have we seen that before? Oh yea, in Iraq when ISIS seized equipment from the Iraq Army as they fled the war zone.
But we better do something, or Kabul will fall soon. Basically, we are staring at the optics of the fall of Saigon in ‘75, as the US flees the Embassy.
One thing is different though, and that is that we have the capability to strike them inside AFG anywhere, anytime. Will this be enough from discouraging them to move on Kabul and the US Embassy? Maybe, that’s why Milley has stated that it’s not a given that the Taliban will retake the country.
We never should have left. There was no reason to leave. As if we were going to save that money and not spend it on other stupid stuff and increase the deficit.
After 20 years I think it is high time we left that place. Let the Chinese see if they can tame them. The Brits couldn't the USSR couldn't. Now we couldn't. We should have left that place a long time ago. If our presence on the ground didn't stop hostilities then that means they don't want us. Let them stay in the stone age for all I care.
After 20 years I think it is high time we left that place. Let the Chinese see if they can tame them. The Brits couldn't the USSR couldn't. Now we couldn't. We should have left that place a long time ago. If our presence on the ground didn't stop hostilities then that means they don't want us. Let them stay in the stone age for all I care.
In fact, along with a JTF in Africa, AFRICOM was stood up.
It is interesting that nation building is now on the outs with Washington. One aspect of nation building is “whose left”? When Syria conflict started ten years ago, neighboring Jordan’s population increased by 30% and it skyrocketed housing prices since that 30% that fled had money. So even when Syria “stabilized”, those that fled did not return. Same thing with Afghanistan. In fact more are fleeing now so the reduced numbers of the professional class are few.
When you carve out say 15-20% of the brightest, richest, and most mobile in a country, who runs it?
Enduring problem and not just in Afghanistan.
We never should have left. There was no reason to leave. As if we were going to save that money and not spend it on other stupid stuff and increase the deficit.
Seriously, this never ending cluster should have ended 10 years ago. The Russians couldn't hold it with brutality and now we can't hold it with COIN. It's time to let it be what it's going to be. A dump.
In fact, along with a JTF in Africa, AFRICOM was stood up.
It is interesting that nation building is now on the outs with Washington. One aspect of nation building is “whose left”? When Syria conflict started ten years ago, neighboring Jordan’s population increased by 30% and it skyrocketed housing prices since that 30% that fled had money. So even when Syria “stabilized”, those that fled did not return. Same thing with Afghanistan. In fact more are fleeing now so the reduced numbers of the professional class are few.
When you carve out say 15-20% of the brightest, richest, and most mobile in a country, who runs it?
Enduring problem and not just in Afghanistan.
We are in Germany Japan Korea Italy England parts of Africa with approval of stable governments. If we were under fire in those places we would leave there too.
I do not say we shouldn't have a presence forward. I like it in the limited ways we have agreements with host nations. But as a veteran of OIF1&2 (2003-04) I for one applauded the nation for acting then. I also on the same token wish that we would not try to nation build where our values and ideas are contrary to the ideas and values of that other population. I wanted us to leave Iraq after we picked up Sadam out of his spider hole and I wanted us to leave Afghanistan after we chased Bin Laden out of Tora Bora. Afghanistan is just not worth the lives lost and I lost some dear friends there. JMHO Let them have that country and go back to the stone age.
Seriously, this never ending cluster should have ended 10 years ago. The Russians couldn't hold it with brutality and now we can't hold it with COIN. It's time to let it be what it's going to be. A dump.
The Soviets were doing fine, and the Afghan government before the Soviet intervention, was doing fine, until first Pakistan started backing the Islamic radicals, with US assistance, then the US directly intervened when the Soviets directly intervened.
Without that initial joint Pakistan-US backing of the 1970's uprising by the Islamic radicals, Afghanistan would have been a much, much better place today, probably not much different than some of the ex-USSR stans.
The Soviets were doing fine, and the Afghan government before the Soviet intervention, was doing fine, until first Pakistan started backing the Islamic radicals, with US assistance, then the US directly intervened when the Soviets directly intervened.
Without that initial joint Pakistan-US backing of the 1970's uprising by the Islamic radicals, Afghanistan would have been a much, much better place today, probably not much different than some of the ex-USSR stans.
That is possibly the most convoluted history of Afghanistan I've ever read. You need to read more. Much, much more. There is fairly decent coverage in European media of Afghanistan.
Start here: Afghanistan: A Military History from Alexander the Great to the War against the Taliban
The 'Stans are not all that great. You don't hear much about them as they aren't very interesting to the average American. (But neither was Afghanistan prior to the Soviet invasion, and then only moderately.) But start here and branch out: https://theobserver-qiaa.org/meet-th...f-central-asia
That is possibly the most convoluted history of Afghanistan I've ever read. You need to read more. Much, much more. There is fairly decent coverage in European media of Afghanistan.
Start here: Afghanistan: A Military History from Alexander the Great to the War against the Taliban
I did not give the history of Afghanistan, lol. But if you think it is now, or in the 2000's, or in the 90's, better than it was in the 40's, 60's, up through to the 78 coup and events after, you are delusional.
Quote:
Originally Posted by m1a1mg
The 'Stans are not all that great. You don't hear much about them as they aren't very interesting to the average American. (But neither was Afghanistan prior to the Soviet invasion, and then only moderately.) But start here and branch out: https://theobserver-qiaa.org/meet-th...f-central-asia
I did not give the history of Afghanistan, lol. But if you think it is now, or in the 2000's, or in the 90's, better than it was in the 40's, 60's, up through to the 78 coup and events after, you are delusional
I am from one of the ex-USSR stans, so please tell me, how is it? You from there? Have a lot of family there?
I can tell you this, a hell of a lot better than Afghanistan is.
You gave a brief section of Afghan history. Sure, Afghanistan had good times. I’ve seen photos of Kabul in the 60s. But it has consistently, throughout history, been in tumult. And I agree, it was a much better place prior to the Soviets and Americans using it as a playground. But what place you reached to find that Afghanistan was better off with the Soviets running the show makes me wonder whose side you were on.
Finally, being from a place doesn’t necessarily provide the necessary tools to look within. I spent 5 years working on the ‘stans. So I know a little.
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Why haven’t we left yet? And Why now?
