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Rambo ha ha ha. Tell them to watch Band of Brothers. I wouldn't mind betting some of them would ask how they managed to do without cell phones and the internet.
I was being facetious; I wouldn't tell people who are under stress amidst horrible working conditions where multiple suicides have occurred to "Suck it up and be thankful you aren't living in this fictional story from a movie!"
The now-retired Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy who made inconsiderate comments to GW sailors during a Q&A session tried being toxic and it didn't put a halt to the suicides. Because disregarding people's concerns and ignoring them isn't how you help people suffering from poor mental health. Especially when the person who is ignoring the complaints of power outages, no running water, no heat, subpar food, inability to sleep due to the sound of power tools running at all hours, and lack of bathrooms gets paid a vastly higher amount than them and has a significantly better living situation than them.
I suggest the complainers watch that excellent German movie "Das Boot" which would provide a very good idea what really tough living conditions were.
Recruits these days aint what they used to be and that should be a source of concern when and if a future war demands the hardships that would go with it
Loved that movie!
However, it doesn’t matter whatever type of recruits we have - for whatever reasons (societal change, wuss upbringing, etc) here it is - with us needing to deal with the situation at hand.
Don’t think the navy tried “to toughen the sailors up”.
It was just indifference, complacency and bad organizational skills. The country shouldn’t want their Navy with this set of leadership skills.
The strength of military - it’s people among other things.
It has to be done what has to be done to keep the morale and the readiness high. If we need tougher recruiting criteria - then change the advertising - show the real conditions - and see how many show up.
Last edited by L00k4ward; 05-30-2023 at 07:42 AM..
Something is horribly wrong with senior Naval officers. This paradigm can not be allowed to continue. It's difficult for me to understand why "someone" is not being held accountable.
Personally...after A-school, I reported to my first ship while it was still in drydock at Long Beach, CA. This was in the latter months of 1970. We were there for over a full year after I reported before rejoining the fleet.
Yes, the needle guns were a pain, but we dealt with it, tempered by much complaining and groans. As an E2/E3, I was berthed onboard. I don't remember the experience as being particularly stressful. As a junior enlisted sailor, I "did what I was told, when I was told". The latter part of our yard period was consumed with extensive training, (which became very valuable the following year when it was really needed).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victimofGM
First ship was Iwo Jima LPH-2. The yard work wasn’t as extensive as the second ship. That was the LaSalle AGF-3. It limped back to USA from Bahrain where sailors only served 2 years at a time. That ship was in horrible shape. There were pipes in the bilges literally held together by many layers of paint. Whole sections of the main steam pipes had to be removed and replaced. One guy’s foot went through the fuel oil pipe in the bilge. There was a huge push to get the ship ready to cross the Atlantic to become the new 6th fleet flag ship in Gaeta Italy. I was a victim of the push for speed instead of safety. Got electrocuted by a battle lantern that was wired incorrectly. At least it gave me 3 days of bed rest. We took on women for the first time in that ship’s history. Numerous ran away unable to deal with ship work and those who remained had to work to cover those who fled.
Good Grief! I can't believe the LaSalle is still around. I remember her from Operation Steelpike in 1964 - I looked it up - same ship!
I, of course, am an old sailor. I still do not believe women should be included in ship's crew.
In 1967 I crossed the Pacific on a wooden Minesweeper - the Impervious. I would loved to have 85 square feet. But we were generally a happy crew. Drydock for us was just a few days to reattach some planks that had been knocked off.
Swim Call meant we just stopped in the ocean and went swimming while our gunner stood watch. Captain used to keep a BAR on the bridge to pick off flying fish. Didn't really have to wear much of a uniform.
Our squadron of 5 sweeps had a commodore. The Bosun used to call him "Commode" - to his face! He was a Lt Commander Mustang. All Sweep captains were Mustangs..
Ah. The good ol days.....
Last edited by Listener2307; 06-07-2023 at 05:13 PM..
Good Grief! I can't believe the LaSalle is still around. I remember her from Operation Steelpike in 1964 - I looked it up - same ship!
I, of course, am an old sailor. I still do not believe women should be included in ship's crew.
In 1967 I crossed the Pacific on a wooden Minesweeper - the Impervious. I would loved to have 85 square feet. But we were generally a happy crew. Drydock for us was just a few days to reattach some planks that had been knocked off.
Swim Call meant we just stopped in the ocean and went swimming while our gunner stood watch. Captain used to keep a BAR on the bridge to pick off flying fish. Didn't really have to wear much of a uniform.
Our squadron of 5 sweeps had a commodore. The Bosun used to call him "Commode" - to his face! He was a Lt Commander Mustang. All Sweep captains were Mustangs..
Ah. The good ol days.....
It’s not around anymore. In 1994 the LaSalle went to Gaeta Italy to become the 6th fleet flag ship. The well deck was taken up by a renovated barracks barge to be used for visiting dignitaries like admirals and generals of NATO nations. The gun mounts were removed for communications equipment. We still had the CWIS. It has long since been decommissioned and scrapped.
Mental health is the real reason these kids killed themselves.
One was TAD/TDY to a school, had martial problems and was drinking heavily.
Then this quote which was followed up by the fact this girl tried to kill herself 9 times in basic training?
"The probe also raises troubling questions about how Huffman even got to the point where she was able to take her life in her off-base apartment, as she had had several reported mental health issues beforehand and a prior suicide attempt in 2020."
One guy was so sleep deprived from getting off shift, driving 8hrs to see his family for a day, driving back for his next shift.
Living conditions suck. But that's not the reason for these suicides or the others that aren't highlighted in the "4 suicides" headline.
The navy failed these kids by their lack of GAF about mental health.
Mental health is the real reason these kids killed themselves.
One was TAD/TDY to a school, had martial problems and was drinking heavily.
Then this quote which was followed up by the fact this girl tried to kill herself 9 times in basic training?
"The probe also raises troubling questions about how Huffman even got to the point where she was able to take her life in her off-base apartment, as she had had several reported mental health issues beforehand and a prior suicide attempt in 2020."
One guy was so sleep deprived from getting off shift, driving 8hrs to see his family for a day, driving back for his next shift.
Living conditions suck. But that's not the reason for these suicides or the others that aren't highlighted in the "4 suicides" headline.
The navy failed these kids by their lack of GAF about mental health.
I agree with this way more than people blaming being in the yards. If they were at sea they may have been better off mentally, on a rigid schedule and people all around to stop a person if they see it happening, but the fact they were in the yards in of itself is not to blame imo. I spent probably 4 years in the yards on different ships and would take yard duty over at sea duty any day of the week lol
It’s not around anymore. In 1994 the LaSalle went to Gaeta Italy to become the 6th fleet flag ship. The well deck was taken up by a renovated barracks barge to be used for visiting dignitaries like admirals and generals of NATO nations. The gun mounts were removed for communications equipment. We still had the CWIS. It has long since been decommissioned and scrapped.
Sunk, you mean. As a target ship in the Atlantic in 2007.
I was being facetious; I wouldn't tell people who are under stress amidst horrible working conditions where multiple suicides have occurred to "Suck it up and be thankful you aren't living in this fictional story from a movie!"
The now-retired Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy who made inconsiderate comments to GW sailors during a Q&A session tried being toxic and it didn't put a halt to the suicides. Because disregarding people's concerns and ignoring them isn't how you help people suffering from poor mental health. Especially when the person who is ignoring the complaints of power outages, no running water, no heat, subpar food, inability to sleep due to the sound of power tools running at all hours, and lack of bathrooms gets paid a vastly higher amount than them and has a significantly better living situation than them.
What if those complaints are outside the power of that master chief or anyone else to fix?
Senior leaders always make more money and live better than subordinates, since the beginning of time. Not sure why its even mentioned. If anything consider it a motivation for those with common sense to stay with the company, finish the job, and be promoted.
Not quit and drift from new job to new job, never showing you can accomplish anything.
I get your point that tough love as a motivator doesnt always work, but it was the only tool at his disposal. Millions to spend on personnel comforts were not available and if it was wouldnt take effect immediately.
Must suck to live in those conditions, but humans have done worse in history. A week of trench warfare in WW1 would make their lives look like a vacation.
I recently learned the trenches werent the worst duty. That fell on those who tunnelled under enemy lines and planted explosives under enemy trenches.
Its not a short video but has some amazing facts. If I were that master chief I would have snuck this in on the ships CCTV and let em view it.
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