The biggest problem with MOA. (amusement park, shop, design)

[ellysbelly]

Originally Posted by Astron1000

Philosophically speaking, I'd MUCH rather spend my money in a store - that if not based in the Twin Cities at least has a brick-n-mortar presence here - than at an online store like Amazon.

Why? Because all of your money is going to Seattle. All of it. Not that I'm against Seattle, it's a lovely city .

Yes, I'm "old-fashioned" in this regard, but I'd rather spend money in a store whose profits and salaries at least partially gets distributed to my neighbors and friends than hand it over to a faceless corporate identity on the west coast. (A corporate identity that is in many ways is even a worse employer than Wal-Mart. Google some of the Amazon horror stories. You may want to think twice about giving your money to them.)

But hey, that's just me being an ideologue.

Amazon has a local presence in MN-- they have a distribution center in Shakopee and a data center elsewhere (where it's located exactly escapes me at the moment); 99% of the stores in any mall are headquartered elsewhere (other than Best Buy and Target). Amazon likely has more workers in MN than many chains do, other than the aforementioned Best Buy and Target.

Despite some utter failings, I don't consider Amazon to be on par with the evil empire (Walmart), as someone who has worked extensively in retail (not in stores) but on the marketing and analytic side, I have had many, MANY professional dealings with Walmart that have left me cold-- as a result, in tandem with other policies that I don't agree with, I don't shop there-- nor do I shop at Sam's Club.

That said, I buy mostly local food, usually directly from small farmers, whenever possible (I'm a total idealogue when it comes to food-- I want local, GMO, hormone and antibiotic free)

But when it comes to other necessities such as toilet paper and toothpaste, I'm all about convenience and price, so Amazon often wins on both counts-- or Costco (another West Coast company), with a smidge of Target (at least that's local!), ALDI, and Trader Joe's. For clothing, I do shop at many of the stores found in MOA, but I have no need to physically enter the store to get what I need-- it's easier to locate the size(s) I need and the online pricing is often lower than it is in store. And if I do have a few free hours, I'd rather spend it at a park, a movie or at home than spend that time in a store (though I will, at times, go to thrift and consignment stores, for a combo of price, selection and the fact that it's very 'green') And, honestly, I likely buy far less than the average consumer-- we use reusable everything whenever possible, we clean with vinegar/lemon juice/water/baking soda, and I even make my own laundry detergent.

Totally unapologetic about my love of online shopping, I just don't have the time nor patience for brick-and-mortar stores--- even when I shop at Target, I often order online and pick up at the service desk. The few times I have shopped at Lunds & Byerly, I have usually ordered online and picked up in their drive thru lane. When I go to Costco, it's strategically planned to be at their least busy time so I can get in, get out and go home. The less time I waste in a store, the happier I am. Hence, malls make me twitchy.

[Glenfield]

The low prices at Wal-Mart improve the overall standard of living for many, many lower income people, and those who jump on the anti Wal-Mart bandwagon are generally those who can easily afford to do so.

[ellysbelly]

Originally Posted by Glenfield

The low prices at Wal-Mart improve the overall standard of living for many, many lower income people, and those who jump on the anti Wal-Mart bandwagon are generally those who can easily afford to do so.

Sale prices at "expensive" stores are often lower than Walmart-- i.e. the BOGO sales at Lunds & Byerly's are cheaper than the 20-30% off at Walmart (that excludes meat-- which is insanely priced at L&B, even on sale-- but that's why I buy direct from farmers-- much cheaper and better quality, as long as you have the ability to pay upfront and the freezer space to store it.)

If you allow the sale cycle to dictate your shopping pattern (buy what you want but ONLY when it's on sale), you'll spend less while getting much better service even at 'expensive' stores or Target (Walmart, with their everyday low pricing, doesn't have a sales cycle-- and they don't regularly employ clearance pricing, either, or at least, they employ it far less frequently than most other retailers)

Clothing on clearance at "high end" stores such as Macy's, Aeropostale, GAP, etc are often cheaper than, as well as better quality than Walmart. I can regularly get clothing for 80-90% off of retail; my rule of thumb is to score kids' clothing for under $5/item-- and adult clothing for under $10-$20/item (exclusive of shoes and coats-- those have higher price points)-- and it's possible to do so without compromising on fashion/fit, etc-- and I definitely do exceed those price points, but only when I have to do so. I normally spend under $30 for running shoes (usually Nike, New Balance or other ''brand" names) and I get my kids The North Face or Columbia coats and snowpants, gently used, on eBay (usually off season) for under $40 for coats and under $15 for snowpants.

Toiletries, especially if you're not brand loyal (but even if you are) can be purchased for next to nothing at CVS (you just have to learn their Extra Buck 'game'). It can be a bit of a learning curve, but it's a great way to get tons of items to donate, too.

There's really no reason to shop at Walmart-- I don't say so to be snobby (I have no issue going to thrift stores or shopping garage sales and eBay), only because if you learn to be a savvy shopper, there's just no reason to shop at Walmart-- you can beat their prices, their quality AND their service elsewhere. If it were truly the cheapest, I'd likely frequent the store, though I'm not at all a fan of theirs.

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by ellysbelly

Sale prices at "expensive" stores are often lower than Walmart-- i.e. the BOGO sales at Lunds & Byerly's are cheaper than the 20-30% off at Walmart (that excludes meat-- which is insanely priced at L&B, even on sale-- but that's why I buy direct from farmers-- much cheaper and better quality, as long as you have the ability to pay upfront and the freezer space to store it.)

If you allow the sale cycle to dictate your shopping pattern (buy what you want but ONLY when it's on sale), you'll spend less while getting much better service even at 'expensive' stores or Target (Walmart, with their everyday low pricing, doesn't have a sales cycle-- and they don't regularly employ clearance pricing, either, or at least, they employ it far less frequently than most other retailers)

Clothing on clearance at "high end" stores such as Macy's, Aeropostale, GAP, etc are often cheaper than, as well as better quality than Walmart. I can regularly get clothing for 80-90% off of retail; my rule of thumb is to score kids' clothing for under $5/item-- and adult clothing for under $10-$20/item (exclusive of shoes and coats-- those have higher price points)-- and it's possible to do so without compromising on fashion/fit, etc-- and I definitely do exceed those price points, but only when I have to do so. I normally spend under $30 for running shoes (usually Nike, New Balance or other ''brand" names) and I get my kids The North Face or Columbia coats and snowpants, gently used, on eBay (usually off season) for under $40 for coats and under $15 for snowpants.

Toiletries, especially if you're not brand loyal (but even if you are) can be purchased for next to nothing at CVS (you just have to learn their Extra Buck 'game'). It can be a bit of a learning curve, but it's a great way to get tons of items to donate, too.

There's really no reason to shop at Walmart-- I don't say so to be snobby (I have no issue going to thrift stores or shopping garage sales and eBay), only because if you learn to be a savvy shopper, there's just no reason to shop at Walmart-- you can beat their prices, their quality AND their service elsewhere. If it were truly the cheapest, I'd likely frequent the store, though I'm not at all a fan of theirs.

Think about the working poor in a rural area for a moment and whether any of this really applies to folks like that.

[ellysbelly]

Originally Posted by Glenfield

Think about the working poor in a rural area for a moment and whether any of this really applies to folks like that.

Understood that won't apply to rural areas-- but it does apply to our area.

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by ellysbelly

Understood that won't apply to rural areas-- but it does apply to our area.

Well, then I guess it's a very localized form of "evil empire." Usually when empires are evil, they're evil everywhere. This empire is different then. Or perhaps "evil empire" was a poor choice of words.

[ellysbelly]

Originally Posted by Glenfield

Well, then I guess it's a very localized form of "evil empire." Usually when empires are evil, they're evil everywhere. This empire is different then. Or perhaps "evil empire" was a poor choice of words.

That's what we referred to them as when I worked on the product side of a large consumer packaged good company-- so it was said tongue-in-cheek.

That said, Walmart has definitely killed small, independent grocers and stores in small, rural areas (yes, they have also provided lower prices and better selection-- as well as job creation, but it has changed the landscape in rural areas)-- so it might be a 'necessary' evil, but there's definitely some downside to their growth and influence, in addition to the benefits that they've provided to small towns.

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by ellysbelly

That's what we referred to them as when I worked on the product side of a large consumer packaged good company-- so it was said tongue-in-cheek.

That said, Walmart has definitely killed small, independent grocers and stores in small, rural areas (yes, they have also provided lower prices and better selection-- as well as job creation, but it has changed the landscape in rural areas)-- so it might be a 'necessary' evil, but there's definitely some downside to their growth and influence, in addition to the benefits that they've provided to small towns.

I thought you might have had experience with them as a supplier. WMT is known for working their suppliers very, very hard and they are not well liked by them, but that is a positive for the customers and their shareholders. I don't see many small independent retailers in the southwest suburbs, and Wal-Mart is not a factor in that market. Wal-Mart didn't kill the small retailer, they died with the times.

[Minnesota Spring]

Originally Posted by Astron1000

Philosophically speaking, I'd MUCH rather spend my money in a store - that if not based in the Twin Cities at least has a brick-n-mortar presence here - than at an online store like Amazon.

Why? Because all of your money is going to Seattle. All of it. Not that I'm against Seattle, it's a lovely city .

Yes, I'm "old-fashioned" in this regard, but I'd rather spend money in a store whose profits and salaries at least partially gets distributed to my neighbors and friends than hand it over to a faceless corporate identity on the west coast. (A corporate identity that is in many ways is even a worse employer than Wal-Mart. Google some of the Amazon horror stories. You may want to think twice about giving your money to them.)

The other upside of buying locally is that many, many retailers (though they don't always advertise it) will match Amazon's prices. And you actually get to touch the thing you are buying before you buy it and take it home right there.

But hey, that's just me being an ideologue. And I do have an Amazon Prime Membership

I agree. What do people think will happen to the economy when all of the malls and physical stores go out of business? Especially the Twin Cities - No Target, Best Buy, MOA and Amazon rules the shopping experience. I personally much prefer shopping in an actual store and looking at what I want to buy before purchasing it rather than ordering, waiting for it to come (hoping no one steals it or it gets lost) and then returning it if its not right. What a hassle. People shopping for everything on Amazon defies logic (to me anyway).

[Port Pitt Ash]

Originally Posted by HighFlyingBird

So much work needs to be done to make it awesome.

The biggest problem with MOA is that it's a mall. By definition it cannot be "awesome".