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I've seen Savate vs Muy Thai and it seems that Savate usually gets the better of the two.
To me, it seems like Savate is for fluid athletes because it emphasizes footwork and defense.
Muy Thai a lot of times seems like it's just about who can take the most punishment before they fall down. It doesn't seem like the skill level is as high as it is in Savate where it appears that skills pay the bills.
so here is my take:
1st savate was and will always be impractical in an mma environment for a couple of reasons. savate was created and centers around footwear, specifically boots. the kicks tend to be with the toes and point of the boot. this makes for weaker kicks (though with the boot on is pretty nasty). 2nd, savate has literally zero clinch work or grappling (standing or other wise), no elbows and really no knees. savate did incorporate some english boxing, and a bit of grappling at some point but the grappling part isnt really known to be a part of it any more. nost savate fighters are considered "dirty" for some of their tactics. gerard gordeau, though not a full on savate fighter is a prime example, he is said to have bit royce gracies ear to try to escape. he is also believed to have gouged yuki nakai's eye causing blindness and ending his career. he did get submitted in that fight as well.
the biggest advantage muay thai has, and something you do not see in the video shown nor in most "pro-savate" footage, are elbows and the use of a clinch. most kickboxing fights are just that a kickboxing match where savate has the advantage because of the rules. a muay thai fighter wants to be in close, get a clinch and land knees and elbows. couple that with trips and takedowns and you have a far superior fighter. notice the savate guys ALL get swept to the mat more then once and are let up. their balance with all the feigns and footwork actually makes them susceptible to sweeps, trips and takedowns. savate is nothing more then a point sparring system much like TKD in most cases. not looking to cause damage generally just rack up enough points to win the match, ironically not unlike any number of greg jackson trained fighters....... hmmmmmmm grag even looks like a silly frenchman doesnt he?
bottom line, savate and muay thai are 2 totally different styles that under their own rules will defeat each other more often then not. in a no rules match, muay thai IMO wins more often then not.
I think the evolution of MMA backs up your points rigas. There are tons of successful Muay Thai fighters in MMA and most others include it some extend in their training. Savate, not so much.
That's doesn't make much sense. Any fool can grab somebody's head and bring their knees up. That doesn't require any skill at all. Obviously, strength helps, and athleticism helps with speed and range of motion, but that's just a brutal tactic.
Savate uses legs on the outside, hands on the inside. Savate is heavily boxing based, but relies a great deal on counters.
Counter strikers typically are the best fighters, but it requires the most skill.
I don't see how Savate couldn't be effective when you kick if your opponent is out of range, and punch on the inside. If you have the right stance, you should be able to take Muy Thai clinching out of the equation. When they reach in, they are incredibly vulnerable to straight right hands and uppercuts.
Obviously if you have a typical, squared up, hands like a praying mantis Muy Thai defense, you're asking to get tied up or get punches thrown straight down the middle.
Even Anderson Silva uses more of a boxing/savate guard than a Muy Thai guard even if he utilizes clinching attacks when possible.
From what I understand, Savate includes those types of grappling moves as well...
The only problem is, there are few Savate schools and honestly, I don't think many of the MMA fighters aside from a select few have the proper coordination and fluidity on their feet to pull it off.
For instance, there is no way Sonen could pull it off no matter how many roids he takes, nor could Overeem, despite how many roids he takes.
To me, Overeem would get sliced up by Dos Santos. He's lucky that fight didn't happen.
If you look at Dos Santos though, he kicks on the outside, Savate style, but uses his hands to knock you out.
I think too much empahsis is being put on Muy Thai clinches when a lot of times, especially if you got a guy like Dos Santos or Silva, who takes them out of the equation, except for Silva when HE decides to use them.
Overreem is a top Muy Thai fighter, yet he couldn't even get Werdum in a clinch, and Werdum's gameplan is to lay on the floor the whole fight.
I just don't see Savate not being effective. Obviously, you need more than just Savate, but that goes for anything.
But if you got boxing, savate, judo or jujuitsu, you're straight.
I've seen the Muy Thai clinch fail on several occasions. everything fails from time to time.
I've seen guys throw short hooks and knock the guy out cold.
ive seen guys get knocked out from short elbows, head kicks, ground and pound, spinning back fists, knees to the head, liver kicks and the list goes on...... whats your point?
I've seen a guy stick his head into his chest, drive him back, and throw short uppercuts and keep the guy off balance. yup, that might work in a kickboxing match but doesnt help in a mma fight because that guy driving his head in is going to get taken down, AND the guy holding the clinch has done it wrong.
So if Anderson Silva is not even a Muy Thai guy, why is Muy Thai the only thing that works in your mind?
never said anderson is not a muay thai guy, i solely pointed out some of his other training. he doesnt focus on one thing, and to be honest if savate was so effective wouldnt a guy like anderson silva, who obviously searches out the most effective techniques and styles, be training in savate?
Savate is kicking on the outside, boxing on the inside. How is that not good for MMA?
savate uses boxing style stances, easy for the takedowns. as shown in your video the savate stylist was easily kicked off his feet. in that KICKBOXING MATCH the other guy is not allowed to kick him after he falls, not allowed to follow to the ground and so on. savate inherently does not have ground defense or grappling. they tried to incorporate it but as they focused more on point sparing the grappling went out the window because it was not allowed.
You're extremelly biased. I have no Savate school.
i have trained in multiple forms of martial arts (granted mostly grappling styles) and i am involved in the world of mma here in texas. i have seen a LOT of styles come and go, and i have seen many stick. the sport is always evolving and who knows maybe someone with some savate can break through but until that person learns how to incorporate all the other aspects of a fighting he isnt going to get very far.
Savate is an art born out of streetfighting and evolved from real life thuggery. Another artform that has come from the same is 52 Handblocks out of NYC. The original objective was survival. Both also involved boots. Most people do not realize that the urban fashion of wearing steel toed timberland boots came from 52 Handblocks. The objective is to hurt quickly and survive. Skinheads wore Doc Martins with that same thought in mind.
It doesn't matter where the messenger is from or if they went to any type of school or not. If someone doesn't like the message-they attack the messenger. Stay focused on learning and stick to the issue. Do not have a bias and your chances of learning how to increase your likelihood of surviving a street attack is increased.
In a no-rules cage fight, I'd take a Muay Thai fighter over just about any other foot/hand striking art. Rigas may have already alluded to the fact that Muay Thai's one weakness is that it requires a fighter to move in close, so that makes a fighter more vulnerable to contact. The fighter leaves himself vulnerable to take-downs, trips, and strikes, but the MT fighter is moving in for the purpose of landing devastating blows from the clinch. Doesn't need to hit the head either - a knee to the body cracks a few ribs in short order.
Not an MMA practitioner so my experience is somewhat limited, but I've dabbled enough in martial arts to know which ones are effective. If I were younger and serious about MMA, I'd definitely make Muay Thai one of my staples. I'd probably complement it with a combination of karate (movement and kicks), tae kwon do (kicks), and boxing.
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