Interesting read for those who want to move to Montana (Bozeman: home, buying)

[NDak15]

Originally Posted by NW Crow

You can't "eat" anything but food.

Beyond whatever you consider essentials, the rest are available targets within available time / effort and money.

2 extra meals out per week or month (for a single person or family) vs. x number of extra / better hikes, view appreciations? $10k on a fancier car or outdoor gear? Extra square footage on the house or on land? A 100 or 500 hours more or less of work and / or recreation and / or digital screentime? You can figuratively eat your time, energy and money different ways. Better to really know yourself and respect your available budgets.

I'm just going to put this here. Run a calculator on your phone.This is just a small part of the cost of living. If houses cost this much so does rent. Do you think groceries will also be cheap? Also where was anything said about entertainment like going out to eat? The topic is coat of living.

https://www.zillow.com/bozeman-mt/houses/

[NW Crow]

Any money spent is a cost of living that way including all forms of luxury or entertainment.

Decide to live in Bozeman... or Butte, Townsend, White Sulphur Springs, Twin Falls ID, ND, Vermont, NYC, Seattle, Greenland or wherever. Decide how to live in any of these places, at minimum or within the possible for you in your chosen style of living.

Is you are flexible on style of living you may have more options to consider on places for yourself and compared to someone without flexibility.

But there are places not for everybody or many, as we've both mentioned above and elsewhere.


House price and rent price are not lock step everywhere. Some places are notably less bad on one than the other. The ratio between average home price and average rent in Bozeman is about 70% higher in Bozeman than in Butte. Relatively speaking, Bozeman is a tougher market in immediate tense for home buyers than renters, though means of course vary and tax deductions and possible property appreciation (or loss) affects the true cost. In Butte, the relative advantage is with the home buyer over the renter. But lower cost of living in Butte than Bozeman for both, IF income and lifestyle are constant. If not, have to know the differences for each at both places.

[Threerun]

Originally Posted by NDak15

Just like Colorado.


I never recommended Bozeman on this forum. People have a fit but the truth is, unless you're very wealthy your quality of life isn't going to be good there. I don't know how college students can afford to set foot off campus.

My daughter is wrapping up her last semester at MSU. Lives in a 2BR apartment with two other people. If it wasn't for her academic scholarship- her 529 funds may have dried up. She can pay her rent with the 529 money as her share of the rent is proportional to on campus housing (which is not covered by her scholarship).

She's very frugal and avoids the 'downtown' scene because of costs. But yeah it is pretty danged expensive. I'm pretty sure she is coming back to live with us in Helena until she figures out what she's going to do or go next. It's too expensive to stay in Bozeman.

My son graduated MSU and is now at CU Boulder. He totally lucked out because a friend of my brother-in-law owns a 3BR condo / townhouse right across the street from a portion of the campus. He is renting that house for $1,000 less than market to my son and 2 other roommates. He's a paid PhD student and a total penny pincher. If you think Bozeman is spendy try Boulder CO. Holy crapola.

Honestly I don't know if my kids will be able to afford CO or MT. My son maybe- he's an engineer. But there are a lack of jobs in his chosen field in MT. My daughter is a biology major- Montana is ripe with opportunity for her, but affordability not so much.

It's a conundrum. When we moved here 13 or so years ago I could afford our current house based on my income. I couldn't do that today in Helena with the price appreciation that has occured.

My kids are honestly thinking of moving back east or further south for jobs. We may follow them depending on circumstances when we retire and keep this place as a 'vacation' home- which exasperates the very problem presented in the OP.

[NDak15]

Originally Posted by Threerun

My daughter is wrapping up her last semester at MSU. Lives in a 2BR apartment with two other people. If it wasn't for her academic scholarship- her 529 funds may have dried up. She can pay her rent with the 529 money as her share of the rent is proportional to on campus housing (which is not covered by her scholarship).

She's very frugal and avoids the 'downtown' scene because of costs. But yeah it is pretty danged expensive. I'm pretty sure she is coming back to live with us in Helena until she figures out what she's going to do or go next. It's too expensive to stay in Bozeman.

My son graduated MSU and is now at CU Boulder. He totally lucked out because a friend of my brother-in-law owns a 3BR condo / townhouse right across the street from a portion of the campus. He is renting that house for $1,000 less than market to my son and 2 other roommates. He's a paid PhD student and a total penny pincher. If you think Bozeman is spendy try Boulder CO. Holy crapola.

Honestly I don't know if my kids will be able to afford CO or MT. My son maybe- he's an engineer. But there are a lack of jobs in his chosen field in MT. My daughter is a biology major- Montana is ripe with opportunity for her, but affordability not so much.

It's a conundrum. When we moved here 13 or so years ago I could afford our current house based on my income. I couldn't do that today in Helena with the price appreciation that has occured.

My kids are honestly thinking of moving back east or further south for jobs. We may follow them depending on circumstances when we retire and keep this place as a 'vacation' home- which exasperates the very problem presented in the OP.

Most of the Front Range Corridor seems very expensive. Definitely a I'd avoid. How is Helena's cost of living compared to Bozeman, Missoula, or Kalispell? I know Billings is getting more expensive. Are Great Falls and Butte as well?

[Threerun]

Originally Posted by NDak15

Most of the Front Range Corridor seems very expensive. Definitely a I'd avoid. How is Helena's cost of living compared to Bozeman, Missoula, or Kalispell? I know Billings is getting more expensive. Are Great Falls and Butte as well?

Helena? The average house price in July 2023 is like $550K. I think it goes Gallatin County, Missoula, Kalispell and then Helena. Not sure about Butte or Great Falls.

It's frankly stupid with the costs. Heck even Glasgow is getting crazy.

[ejisme]

I think, by looking at the real estate listings, that Great Falls is the most affordable of the Western Montana cities. Sure is windy there, but it's not far from the mountains, and has some pretty great prairie and stream bottom deer and bird hunting. Plus, you can still say you live in Montana to all your back home friends.

[Veritas Vincit]

I get why a Tom Brady or Leonardo Di Caprio wants to look at mountains for a few weeks every year, but I don't get why someone who looks like they'd be poor and in danger of being 'down and out' *anywhere* feels the need to live in an expensive place because they might come across a moose on the street.

[NDak15]

Originally Posted by Threerun

Helena? The average house price in July 2023 is like $550K. I think it goes Gallatin County, Missoula, Kalispell and then Helena. Not sure about Butte or Great Falls.

It's frankly stupid with the costs. Heck even Glasgow is getting crazy.

I didn't realize Glasgow was getting crazy. Are Miles City and Glendive as well? Or Havre?

Originally Posted by Veritas Vincit

I get why a Tom Brady or Leonardo Di Caprio wants to look at mountains for a few weeks every year, but I don't get why someone who looks like they'd be poor and in danger of being 'down and out' *anywhere* feels the need to live in an expensive place because they might come across a moose on the street.

I think it's shows like Yellowstone, movies like A River Runs Through It, and a vacation that makes people gush over it. They think it will be great and find out you still need money to live everywhere. Much of the same probably happens in places like Hawaii or Florida.

[Threerun]

Originally Posted by NDak15

I didn't realize Glasgow was getting crazy. Are Miles City and Glendive as well? Or Havre?

I don't know about Miles City. I have friends in Glasgow and what's happening are locals from areas like Kalispell are leaving and going to areas around Fort Peck Lake. Also outsiders coming in and snatching these cabins and lots around the lake.

My buddies one story house in an old subdivision above the town on the north side is worth over 600K now. Inventory is non-existent and demand is extremely high. I know folks in Malta- a family from CA bought an old home in town and then the closed theatre downtown. At least they are trying to revitalize something. But hell even still Malta is getting pressure.

I guess rehabilitating some of the prairie towns that lost populations is good, but it is putting pressure on locals that don't make squat in wages.

[NDak15]

Originally Posted by Threerun

I don't know about Miles City. I have friends in Glasgow and what's happening are locals from areas like Kalispell are leaving and going to areas around Fort Peck Lake. Also outsiders coming in and snatching these cabins and lots around the lake.

My buddies one story house in an old subdivision above the town on the north side is worth over 600K now. Inventory is non-existent and demand is extremely high. I know folks in Malta- a family from CA bought an old home in town and then the closed theatre downtown. At least they are trying to revitalize something. But hell even still Malta is getting pressure.

I guess rehabilitating some of the prairie towns that lost populations is good, but it is putting pressure on locals that don't make squat in wages.

Very strange to see Kalispell residents buying in Eastern Montana. When I lived west of the Divide anything east of the Divide was almost thought of as a barren land.