Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Wiki says 54%, but either way it is a very white city by American standards. Name some major cities that are whiter than Boston. Seattle, Minneapolis. Hence the trend on city data where those looking for a white city tend to narrow it down to these cities. We can even toss in Portland despite its small size. Not just demographically but culturally Boston is one of the whitest cities and is well known for being a bit of an old boys club. In the eastern US Boston is well known as a place where blacks shouldnt count on mobility, yet it is still ahead of Canadian cities.
Also, blacks have been in the city since the 1600's (a century?), hispanics perhaps a century to get technical but were in no significant numbers until recent decades, much like Montrealers of color. I dont buy the argument that everyone running things seems to be a white Jean DuPont because immigration is recent. You can look at other Canadian cities like Toronto, Calgary, and Vancouver and see a difference. Or even more so the US where Indians, Africans, and Asians are very recent but more successful than white and black 'natives'. Perhaps the best course of action is to discuss the issue and get it out in the open. I feel that such topics are swept under the rug in Canada or taken as an insult which only hampers meaningful discussion and progress.
I am not sure it is significantly better in a place like Toronto. Maybe slightly, but not by much. Toronto is something like 50% (or more) visible minority, which is as you know Canadianspeak for "non-white", and yet there are few visible minority faces on the city council. Something like 5 out of 50 I think. Its police force and fire department are also very white compared to the overall city population. This is changing though, but it's changing in Montreal and other cities as well.
As for the U.S., Edwardsyzzurphands has said on here before that although there are obvious racial problems in that country, there is also a greater "oomph" in the black community that brings with it many visible role models, and lots of affirmation and activism. And also I suppose the opportunity for black people to aim for success while still "being themselves".
I don't think Canada is a hellish place for black people (and I know a good number personally who are very happy here) but I also fully understand someone would find the U.S. to be a more fertile ground for personal achievement and blossoming for their kids if they are a black family.
Toronto rather smugly advertises itself as something of a racial utopia (calling it the first post-racial metropolis for example). This is highly exagerrated in countless ways. Of course Quebec and Montreal are often depicted as racist places. I remember being told on a couple of occasions to watch out for the 'French'. This something I certainly disagree with. I never found Quebec to be more racist than Ontario. It is possible that my views of blacks being better represented in Toronto are being shaped by the 'post-racial city' PR.
I am not sure it is significantly better in a place like Toronto. Maybe slightly, but not by much. Toronto is something like 50% (or more) visible minority, which is as you know Canadianspeak for "non-white", and yet there are few visible minority faces on the city council. Something like 5 out of 50 I think. Its police force and fire department are also very white compared to the overall city population. This is changing though, but it's changing in Montreal and other cities as well.
As for the U.S., Edwardsyzzurphands has said on here before that although there are obvious racial problems in that country, there is also a greater "oomph" in the black community that brings with it many visible role models, and lots of affirmation and activism. And also I suppose the opportunity for black people to aim for success while still "being themselves".
I don't think Canada is a hellish place for black people (and I know a good number personally who are very happy here) but I also fully understand someone would find the U.S. to be a more fertile ground for personal achievement and blossoming for their kids if they are a black family.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj
Valid points about Toronto.
Toronto rather smugly advertises itself as something of a racial utopia (calling it the first post-racial metropolis for example). This is highly exagerrated in countless ways. Of course Quebec and Montreal are often depicted as racist places. I remember being told on a couple of occasions to watch out for the 'French'. This something I certainly disagree with. I never found Quebec to be more racist than Ontario. It is possible that my views of blacks being better represented in Toronto are being shaped by the 'post-racial city' PR.
Very good post Acajack. I also would like to add that even though Toronto has two more elected city council members than Montreal that are visible minorities, Montreal is only 25% VM as compared to Toronto which is 50%. The expectation, based on demographics is that Toronto should be far ahead of Montreal in that department, but that is not the case.
I am not quite sure how the black professional community is represented within Montreal, as I have never worked there, but it is hard for me to believe that it is any worse than Toronto. Blacks are severely underrepresented in executive positions in Toronto as well as in other industries like leadership positions in the Medical Industry and Law.
The law firm my wife worked at in Toronto, had 150 attorney's and not one of them was black (My wife was a Law Clerk at the time and has since become a Lawyer herself). After Grad School I went to work at a well known Investment firm in Toronto as well and there was not one black person at the Director level or higher. Yes much of this is anecdotal, but fellow black professional friends of mine who are still in Toronto have the same complaints. This is very different from our experience working in the US, both in Central Florida and Boston.
You also add to that, the well documented dealings between the Toronto Police Services and the Black community when it comes to racial profiling and you hardly have some post racial society.
Hobbesdj, you also have a slightly outdated view of social mobility in Boston for minorities. According to quite a few studies, the city ranks much higher than most Metro Areas when it comes to social mobility. This Harvard study may be of interest to you: http://obs.rc.fas.harvard.edu/chetty/mobility_geo.pdf
Add to that there was a time a few years ago while living in Cambridge, that I had a Black (And gay as a side note) Mayor, Black Governor and Black President at the same time. I have to admit it was a pretty great feeling.
Very good post Acajack. I also would like to add that even though Toronto has two more elected city council members than Montreal that are visible minorities, Montreal is only 25% VM as compared to Toronto which is 50%. The expectation, based on demographics is that Toronto should be far ahead of Montreal in that department, but that is not the case.
I am not quite sure how the black professional community is represented within Montreal, as I have never worked there, but it is hard for me to believe that it is any worse than Toronto. Blacks are severely underrepresented in executive positions in Toronto as well as in other industries like leadership positions in the Medical Industry and Law.
The law firm my wife worked at in Toronto, had 150 attorney's and not one of them was black (My wife was a Law Clerk at the time and has since become a Lawyer herself). After Grad School I went to work at a well known Investment firm in Toronto as well and there was not one black person at the Director level or higher. Yes much of this is anecdotal, but fellow black professional friends of mine who are still in Toronto have the same complaints. This is very different from our experience working in the US, both in Central Florida and Boston.
You also add to that, the well documented dealings between the Toronto Police Services and the Black community when it comes to racial profiling and you hardly have some post racial society.
Hobbesdj, you also have a slightly outdated view of social mobility in Boston for minorities. According to quite a few studies, the city ranks much higher than most Metro Areas when it comes to social mobility. This Harvard study may be of interest to you: http://obs.rc.fas.harvard.edu/chetty/mobility_geo.pdf
Add to that there was a time a few years ago while living in Cambridge, that I had a Black (And gay as a side note) Mayor, Black Governor and Black President at the same time. I have to admit it was a pretty great feeling.
I have a branch of my extended family that is in the GTA. One of my cousins is a Toronto firefighter and on his Facebook is a picture of the team at his fire hall and every single face on there is white. And the fire hall is somewhere in north Scarborough.
I have a branch of my extended family that is in the GTA. One of my cousins is a Toronto firefighter and on his Facebook is a picture of the team at his fire hall and every single face on there is white. And the fire hall is somewhere in north Scarborough.
The Firehouse is typically the last place the diversify in most cities, so this does not surprise me at all. I do know a few Firemen in the GTA (They are all white themselves) and they even make comments about how slow the department is to integrate people from different backgrounds, especially visible minorities.
To be fair, this is a problem in most cities. Even a city like NYC has a very white FD, despite efforts to recruit heavily in the black and latino communities.
With that said, I would much rather Toronto focus on diversifying its Police department first and focus on training people to handle men of colour within the community. The relationship between black men in the GTA and the TPS is frayed to the level that it is almost beyond repair.
Toronto rather smugly advertises itself as something of a racial utopia (calling it the first post-racial metropolis for example). This is highly exagerrated in countless ways. Of course Quebec and Montreal are often depicted as racist places. I remember being told on a couple of occasions to watch out for the 'French'. This something I certainly disagree with. I never found Quebec to be more racist than Ontario. It is possible that my views of blacks being better represented in Toronto are being shaped by the 'post-racial city' PR.
A hunch tells me that blacks and other visible minority people may have lower unemployment rates and higher incomes (relative to the majority's) in Toronto as compared to Montreal.
Of course, it's not an apples to oranges comparison and for a portion of the people who are minorities in Montreal you have a language barrier which does not really exist in Toronto. In Montreal, some minorities speak only English whereas for most jobs (especially good ones) knowledge of French is required. In Toronto there is no such language ambiguity and everyone who doesn't know English already learns it fairly quickly if they are new arrivals, and you would have exactly zero people born and raised in Toronto with no English skills. In Montreal the number of people who actually from the city who speak no French or limited French has decreased rapidly, but they still exist. This hampers their access to the job market and advancement.
On the other hand, the rate of violent death for black youths is as we know much higher in Toronto than in Montreal.
So in Toronto a young black male may have a slightly better socio-economic outlook than in Montreal, but he's more likely to get shot or stabbed to death as well.
Which race makes up the majority of the murder victims in Montreal?
When it comes "race" the vast majority of them would be white.
Breaking it down most victims appear to be French Canadians.
If there is a group that is inordinately represented it's probably Italians who are likely the second-most victimized group but some distance behind French Canadians.
And then it seems to be pretty mixed all over the various groups in the city.
There isn't a really high concentration of a particular minority demographic at the top of the list as in Toronto.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
