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Old 10-14-2009, 04:53 PM
 
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In Florida the homestead provision gives you a lot more protection than you might have in some states. I think you still have to pay the taxes but with the save our home deal the max they can raise them is something like 3% a year.

But lawsuits, bankruptcy and crap like that your home is protected. Thats the single biggest reason I own a house there. My plan B so to speak.
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Old 10-14-2009, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Backwoods of Maine
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Hmmmm...good question! I do know that if you own your property outright, it is an asset (as any type of property would be). If you have a mortgage on it, it is a liability, as you always need sufficient income to pay that mortgage, or you lose your equity in the "asset" that isn't yours, yet.

But the OP wanted to approach this from a philosophical perspective. I'd say the bank owns it. It is in the bank's interest to have you pay the taxes, repairs and the insurance, therefore they happily let you "own" it in your name. Same with a car loan; you get the dubious pleasure of paying the taxes, repairs and insurance, not the lender. In both cases, maximum profits for them, maximum payments from you. In both cases you lose title to the asset if for some reason you can't make the payments. Think about that.

In years past, there were no big mortgages as there are today. People bought land for cash, and built a home themselves. Enter the bankers (you can tell I really love those guys!). By providing financing for property, they allowed the prices to rise (yep, you can buy much more house with borrowed money!) to the point where, if you default, they get a property much more valuable than if it were priced for those who could only pay cash. Likewise with cars. 30-40 years ago, people bought new cars for cash. The 24 mo loan, then 36, then 48, now 60 and 72-month loans, are quite new, relatively speaking. This type of financing (including the upside down portion from the last car), has allowed automakers to raise the prices on vehicles to an incredible extent! Another case of corporate greed, in cahoots with the bankers.

That's what got us where we are today. Everybody in debt up to their neck, and everybody losing all that they have worked so hard for. Fine way to run an economy! Our wealth is being expropriated before our eyes. Can't "own" a house without a mortgage. Can't drive a new car without a loan. They WANT us in debt. A debtor is not a free man.

Forgive my rant - this stuff just irks the devil outta me!
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:27 PM
 
Location: North Central Florida
6,218 posts, read 7,729,420 times
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Reality dictates that the one that can take it from you, is the one that owns it. As mentioned, if there is a lien of any type, or taxes that come due at regular intervals, you can NEVER own it free and clear of any encumbrances. The bankers own it all, in some way or another, the gubmint is their loyal collection agency.
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Canada
2,158 posts, read 1,994,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcrackly View Post
When you pay a mortgage on your house , the bank owns it until you make the last payment. Then you rent it from the town (via property taxes).
What a society. You pay a bank three or four times the actual purchase price over the course of a mortgage (via interest) and then you still pay rent (excellent identification of what it really is) to the municipal government in perpetuity.
That sounds an awful lot like communism to me, but people don't want to wake up and see it.
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Old 10-15-2009, 12:14 AM
 
18,726 posts, read 33,390,141 times
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I sold my tiny condo to a formerly homeless friend for $55K (this, in 1994). He was a complete wreck about the cost "I owe $55,000, I've never owed anything like this."
We looked at how much he'd paid to rent a tiny roach dump flophouse studio for some seven years, and it actually came out to $55K.
Housing will cost you one way or the other.
Having rented through housing booms, I at least know what my payments will be as an "owner," that I won't lose a lease because someone's cousin wants the place, and in my area, there are no comparable rentals for almost any price.
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Old 10-15-2009, 06:32 AM
 
Location: North Central Florida
6,218 posts, read 7,729,420 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brightdoglover View Post
Housing will cost you one way or the other.

No doubt about that. One needs to look at their means, couple it with their NEEDS, and decide what is the most sustainable method of housing themselves, and family if that is an issue. For me it's soon gonna be a slide in camper on the back of my truck, with a couple of solar panels, and I'll still have to pay the bastards a yearly registration fee for the truck. If I dont, they'll impound my truck/home, and make me pay ten times the original amount to get it back.

The only freedom I (and the rest of you) have, is the freedom to do what you're told, or pay dearly.....You also have the freedom to stick your head in the sand and ignore that fact, they especially like when you do that. The only thing you'll ever truly own, is your own thoughts, guard them closely.

IMHO, Sustainability is the most important, and most overlooked concept when most folks look at purchasing....anything
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Old 10-15-2009, 11:18 AM
 
136 posts, read 726,488 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcrackly View Post
When you pay a mortgage on your house , the bank owns it until you make the last payment. Then you rent it from the town (via property taxes).
Thats a good point, I have thought about that too. I remember living in NYC and calculating the property taxes out and I think it was something like 4% on some kinds of property and I remember thinking, really at that rate its just the city renting to people who can pay that, there is only an illusion of ownership. I remember hearing a funny story about a bunch of real estate investors coming here from quasi communist China, then leaving in horror after finding you had to pay annual property taxes here.
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Old 10-15-2009, 01:40 PM
 
18,726 posts, read 33,390,141 times
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In the past, before mortgages (I think this goes up to about 1940ish) over half of Americans lived in rural areas, and there were a whole lot fewer of us. Little to no zoning in areas of low density, so someone could build their own house or build it over time for cash, etc.
I saw a neat photo of a streetful of Sears kit houses, little bungalows, little backyards, little outhouses all lined up on the alleyway. I saw the plans for some of these kits (usually 3-4 rooms) and there were no bathrooms. It was just a lot easier to build your own.
My former bungalow outside Boston was built as a summer shack, and renovated, as they say, with a hammer and a six-pack on weekends. Very little would be up to code, although there was a crumbling camp-like bathroom. After eight years, it became unliveable (bathroom falling off, furnace lines rusted, roof collapsing) and I had to tear it down. The town had a gazillion requirements for any rebuilding and certainly had a zoning against mobile homes and all sorts of septic requirements (cost $25K).
When this area was rural, it was a lot more hit n' miss. People had livestock, all of which were grandfathered in, but no new livestock allowed. The woman next door had a 35-year-old horse here when I moved in.
I don't know that the evil bankers sat down and decided how to "get" people. As for the car loans, people certainly see it as a way to buy more car than they could normally afford. I think it's foolish, but it's not a plot. Just plays to the uninformed/grabby aspect of people.

Certainly if a third party will pay for or subsidize something, you get more of it. See Under: health insurance/student loans. What annoys me is, once the third party loans are available, the prices do go up to the point where no one can afford to choose not to borrow if they want or need the product.
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Old 10-15-2009, 03:10 PM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,733,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brightdoglover View Post
I don't know that the evil bankers sat down and decided how to "get" people.
Many people are stupid, and Bankers exploit that. That's morally wrong in my book, even if it is a great way to make money.
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Old 10-16-2009, 04:31 AM
 
Location: Florida
23,173 posts, read 26,197,836 times
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In the case of who owns it, you or the bank, let me tell you what I am learning right now.
We are "the bank" and the home owners are defaulting.
Until the conclusion of the foreclosure process and judgment, we have absolutely NO rights to the property....can't prevent them from doing whatever they want to it, including destruction, can't get them out ,even though non-paying of mortgage,taxes,etc.
So for the next 6 to 9 months we only get to pay lawyers, taxes and insurance and wonder what we are going to get back when it's all over.
If they still haven't vacated at the end of the process we then have to go through eviction proceeding, so even more months.
It has never set right with me that municipalities have the right to take a property for unpaid taxes since I don't remember ever signing a contract with one agreeing to that, as you do with a mortgage.
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