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I never said it wasn't unintentional. I said it's lazy engineering, and a flaw marketed as character.
Most manufacturers strive to improve their products. Only in HD world does a drawback and something that is tiring to the rider constitute a trademark and legacy worth preserving.
Let me first say that I am not a Bike owner but have always found Bikes fascinating . So, I pulled up to this stoplight and there was a beautiful looking H.D. RoadKing Bike driven by a fella who looked to be about 60 . Aside from the beauty of it, I immediately noticed while it was at idle that the entire Bike was shaking violently -- everything from the fenders to the handlebars ; he had both hands on the grips and both his arms and torso were shaking pretty good. Ive never seen this before quite frankly, and wondered what was up with that ? Is this normal, or, does his motor need some work ?
As he gave it some throttle and began to pull away, the bike all of a sudden smoothed out with no more shaking. It was only at a stop.
I cant say ive ever noticed shaking to that degree on a Bike . Please forgive me of my ignorance regarding this issue, but I am curious. Thanks.
P.S. Which H.D. model is the best seller today out of all of them ? Ive wondered that too.
I knew you'd get the Harley Haters going on this one. That argument is older than dirt and just as stupid. Don't like Harley's? Don't buy one.
I don't know the machanics of it and won't pretend that I do but as an owner of an older model 1995 and a newer 2008 Road King...I'm going to guess that the man was riding an older one or he's modified it.
On the 95 I swear my fillings were going to come out while it idled but it's not even close to being as noticible on the 08. Both are smooth at higher RPM.
Let me first say that I am not a Bike owner but have always found Bikes fascinating . So, I pulled up to this stoplight and there was a beautiful looking H.D. RoadKing Bike driven by a fella who looked to be about 60 . Aside from the beauty of it, I immediately noticed while it was at idle that the entire Bike was shaking violently -- everything from the fenders to the handlebars ; he had both hands on the grips and both his arms and torso were shaking pretty good. Ive never seen this before quite frankly, and wondered what was up with that ? Is this normal, or, does his motor need some work ?
As he gave it some throttle and began to pull away, the bike all of a sudden smoothed out with no more shaking. It was only at a stop.
I cant say ive ever noticed shaking to that degree on a Bike . Please forgive me of my ignorance regarding this issue, but I am curious. Thanks.
P.S. Which H.D. model is the best seller today out of all of them ? Ive wondered that too.
The constant shaking and vibrations make HDs some of the most uncomfortable rides out there.
Where's that BS flag? They aren't designed to do that. They do it because of a old inherent design drawback, but it is marketed as "character".
No bike should be a paint shaker, but there isn't much room for engineering advancement at the old Bar and Shield, that is unless it involves chrome.
The Touring line shakes at idle because they are rubber mounted only.( A motor) The softail line (B motor)has counterbalancers in the motor and frame mounted. The bike is suppose to vibrate at idle, the old british bikes and the old 650 Yamaha also did this but to a worse degree.
Always ben that way until the intro of the balanced motor in about 99
I have owned both and own a 2006 Street glide and also just ordered my 2010 Victory XCountry
I had a 1975 650 Yamaha twin for several years, and its vibration only became bothersome at high RPM, when it would buzz my hands to sleep. The vibration wasn't objectionable at all at lower speeds (under 70 mph in top).
Over the past 35 years Ive had more bikes than I can count,
love all bikes and consider myself to be pretty open minded.
I just picked up a Suzuki Burgman last weekend too.......
Here are some of my opinions based on my experience:
Unequivocally, my later model Harleys were the best bikes Ive
ever owned. The workmanship was better than any other bike
and by virtue of hydro lifters and belt drive, the most
maintenance free bikes, too. People hate HDs based on the
cro-mags who run loud pipes and dress like Village People.
They're the ones you see.....There are zillions of normal people who
pile up lots of miles very quietly and just appreciate a heavy
duty, old skool bike. Im 150lb vegetarian who doesn't drink even
drink beer or slap the ole' lady fer not gittin me one, so Im hardly
a 'Harley Bro'. People who say stuff like 'unreliable', 'expensive',
'shakes too much' are simply uneducated ignoramuses. I never
let a dealer work on any of my bikes so I know J-Bike parts are more
expensive than HD parts in a lot of instances. Also, with one of the
highest build-to-still-on-the-road ratios of any vehicle ever built in
the whole world, the reliability stuff is not even remotely true.
Any bike event will bear this out.....
I dont understand why BMW escapes the wrath HD gets with the actual,
quantifiable issues, electrical glitches, dealer issues that are intrinsic
to them.
As far as engineering goes, HD's air cooled motor is state-of-the-art.
No other air cooler can last under the severe stress an HD is
engineered to withstand. To end this diatribe, To me with my
priorities, no J-Bike will ever be engineered as well as a Harley as
long as they have shim-bucket required valve adjustment especially
at the intervals the Manu's suggest and then compound it by stocking
your dealers with mechanics who couldnt do it properly on their best
day. Same for carb syncs on older multi-cylinder bikes.......
If you are a hard, hi-mileage rider, this stuff is simply unacceptable
in my opinion.
An HD is gas/oil----> ride.
[/rant] Whatever you ride, be safe, have fun !!
Peace out !
(snip) People who say stuff like 'unreliable', 'expensive',
'shakes too much' are simply uneducated ignoramuses. I never
let a dealer work on any of my bikes so I know J-Bike parts are more
expensive than HD parts in a lot of instances. Also, with one of the
highest build-to-still-on-the-road ratios of any vehicle ever built in
the whole world, the reliability stuff is not even remotely true.
Any bike event will bear this out..... (snip)
[/rant] Whatever you ride, be safe, have fun !!
Peace out !
While I have no issue with your personal experience about this brand being the "best bike" you've ever owned ...
to label everybody else who has had a less than good experience ... not by virtue of the personalities ... but by actual road miles, working on these bikes as professionals ... as "uneducated ignoramuses" is a bit over the top, don't you think?
In my case, I've been working on HD motors as a motorcycle shop machinist/parts importer/distributor since 1965. I've seen the repeated failures of all kinds of parts in these motors through the various series of design and manufacture. Top ends, bottom ends, camshafts, electrical systems and components have historically been less than desirable.
I've got friends who own a bike rental shop in Hawaii, and they are thrilled to get 50,000 mile service out of the current generation bikes. Wow ... 50,000 miles before their bikes start to become a maintenance hog. A milestone that was reached by a lot of other bikes many years ago. Again, I'm speaking from personal experience in the industry, having been associated with the sales/service of MotoGuzzi police service bikes in CA ... where HD's were retired as "junkers" at 50K miles and about 11 cents per mile cost to the police departments ... where MG's were going 100,000 miles at less than 3 cents per mile before being retired. That retirement mileage was strictly a department policy, as we saw many bikes continue on for a lot of miles (and months) past that without needed repairs when the procurement departments hadn't bought new bikes for replacement just yet. Keep in mind that the police departments charged "unscheduled downtime" on the motorcycles, so if a bike was off the road due to a failure, that was charged against the bike ... and HD's had a lot of that type of maintenance cost.
I won't even get into the comparison of the abilities of the bikes ... where with all the police required equipment and electrical loads, the HD's just met the specs for performance and the MG's greatly exceeded them.
What's significant here is that there's a fair number of other bike models that were also quite capable in all those regards, as there are today. Some of them are European, some Japanese, some from here in NorthAmerica.
I live on the corridor where a great deal of motorcycle traffic passes by every year to head to Sturgis. It's a gold mine for the local HD dealerships every year, as bikes break down on the way to the party. Keeps several people busy with trailers to pick up bikes for repairs.
Anecdotally, I've got friends who are as "die hard" enthusiasts of HD brand bikes as you. Most of them buy a new bike every year or so. One of them three years ago bought a new road king and matching trailer outfit ... pretty nice looking rig ... and set out on his annual 4,000 mile trip to visit grandkids. He spent most of the month-long trip broken down with a new bike, and awaiting parts at the dealerships enroute after being transported into towns. That was essentially a repeat performance of his prior two new bikes from the HD dealer in Englewood, CO. BTW, that HD dealer (with all those fabulous mechanics!) never ever fixed the rear brake to function on that new bike for more than a couple hundred miles (bled it out, replaced cylinders, many times). My friend has never completed that annual road trip without major and minor HD breakdowns for 20 years and 6 new bikes, so this last year he finally took the plunge and bought a Valkyrie with a trailer rig ... and pocketed a lot of cash out of the HD. The Valkyrie hasn't given him one minute of unsched repairs or failed to peform in over 30,000 heavily loaded road cruising miles. Oh, and FWIW ... that last HD road king, on the one weekend trip we took together into the Colorado rocks ... lost all electrical power on I-70 up past Evergreen, and quit running. We took the battery out, went into town and got it recharged, and then rode into a shop in town ... where they found that the connector for the alternator output had been loose and arcing for awhile, so that the plug was melted and wouldn't continue to make a connection. They hard wired the harness so that the bike would run and we continued on our way. Meanwhile, my 1969 MG Ambassador just kept chugging away quietly and didn't skip a beat, while delivering 58 mpg for our trip (no, it won't accelerate with the HD off the line, but it will maintain cruising speeds in the hills just as well in top gear while heavily loaded).
Another friend rides with a group of "old farts" for an annual (or two) golf trip. All of them ride asian bikes, typically 750-1000 cc'ers, except one who has a recent soft-tail. Just for grins this year, a few of them decided to swap bikes to see what the other guy's bike was all about. The fellow on the HD dumped it coming out of the driveway because it grounded out on the left turn on the hillside where the driveway entered the street ... a turn he's made hundreds of times on his numerous asian bikes for 25 years without any incident. They made it to Payson AZ this year before the HD broke down and needed repairs there while they took a couple of days to play golf. The HD made it to San Diego where it again needed a visit to a dealer shop. Meanwhile, the VFR's and the Valkyrie and the Vulcan and the new Triumph continued to run without any incident, as did the 1972 Norton Commando in the group. Previously, a couple of them rode BMW airhead's, and never had a breakdown, and one had a K75 that ran over 100,000 miles before it was traded on a Victory.
Just another tidbit ... I've got friends in the biz who custom manufacture replacement and upgrade parts for HD's, and make a good living at it. The reason they have a market for a lot of the basic parts (not "performance" or cosmetic parts) is because the OE parts from HD don't give good service. The proof of the pudding of how big this industry is comes from seeing complete motorcycles built that look like an HD, but are made entirely from aftermarket non-OE parts. I don't know if they're in the biz anymore or not, but I've seen bikes like the Illusion brand out there, and I know they're several other production bikes built with the same concept.
Additionally, there's a whole bunch of aftermarket shops specializing in HD's for service and repairs. Even in Cheyenne, we've got three that come to mind, and we're just a town of 50,000 population not too many miles from the major metropolitan area of the front range of Colorado, where they've got a whole bunch of aftermarket HD shops and dealers. They do "customs", but their real daily "bread and butter" is fixing the bikes that the dealers apparently cannot satisfy their clientele. Everytime I drive past one of those shops, they've got a yard full of bikes waiting for service ....
I could go on for a lot more anecdotes about HD shortcomings, but my point remains. In my experience and that of many friends, they don't give much value for the dollar compared to a lot of other choices in the marketplace. And that conclusion didn't happen from hearsay or an image ... that came at the personal expense of owning and operating these bikes. That's hardly "ignorant" or uneducated, or from a prejudice against those bikes because certain types ride them. That's high dollar information from people who really tried, more than once, to own and enjoy an HD product ....
Personally, I've never owned an asian brand bike, either. I like what the euro stuff has done for me over the last 45 years and they still deliver for my dollar. Were they all the greatest bike ever, like is claimed for the HD product? no, of course not. Some had their strengths, some had their weaknesses, some were great compromises for a package ... but all were more reliable and durable for me than the numerous HD's that I saw go through the hands of my friends during the same time frame. Please note that I'm not "bashing" HD's ... I'm just saying that I've found other bikes to deliver better durable performance, handling, braking, comfort, electrical systems, engine trans/drivetrain durability, lower maintenance costs, better fuel economy, quieter running, better tire wear, longer life consumable components, good assembly and finish details, look good to me, and satisfy my motorcycle requirements better than an HD for much less total cost. Oh, did I mention lower insurance and licensing costs, too?
What baffles me is that you'd even buy another bike brand if HD was such a completely satisfactory experience for you. Why waste your money on something that wasn't as good? Or is it possible that there are redeeming qualities about the other bike you've just bought?
I dont understand why BMW escapes the wrath HD gets with the actual,
quantifiable issues, electrical glitches, dealer issues that are intrinsic
to them.
The BMW guys would comment, but their final drives failed on the way to the computer.
As far as all the bashing goes, I don't think that many would knock HD if their bikes weren't priced out of the stratosphere. If they were priced at what they're "worth" - call it $15K and less, as opposed to being priced at what the market will bear, there would be fewer haters. HD - 19th century technology at 22nd century pricing.
The BMW guys would comment, but their final drives failed on the way to the computer.
As far as all the bashing goes, I don't think that many would knock HD if their bikes weren't priced out of the stratosphere. If they were priced at what they're "worth" - call it $15K and less, as opposed to being priced at what the market will bear, there would be fewer haters. HD - 19th century technology at 22nd century pricing.
I'm not an HD Hater, by any means, but I do agree with you here.
I bought a 2005 Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 Classic, brand new, for under $9,000. The comparable Harley would have cost over double.
I realize that I don't have the resale value of a Harley. And I realize that I don't have the image. But the trade-off was worth it to me, because I just want to ride.
I have no regrets.
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