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Good evening, my Eastern neighbors in the Garden State! I'm currently enrolled in college here in the Scranton area of PA, and I'm considering a possible move to NW NJ for employment options in the next several years. The Scranton metro offers very little in the way of opportunity for someone holding a Master's Degree in Accounting, yet I see a plethora of opening available in NE NJ and NYC.
Since I do love Scranton, my original plans were to buy a downtown condo here and either commute to work in NJ via my car or take a Martz bus daily to NYC. However, after talking to several people who currently make the 2-2.5 hour trek each way daily for work between metro Scranton and NJ/NYC, I'm getting more and more turned off to this idea; It appears as if I'll have to leave Scranton behind in order to pursue my professional interests or risk going crazy from stress by the time I'm 28!
At this point, I've been doing some online research and have fallen in love with Netcong. It seems to be less than an hour via I-80 to a lot of white-collar career opportunities, yet the cost-of-living also seems to be relatively-affordable (as compared to the rest of NJ). Can anyone give me some insight into living in Netcong, Hopatcong, Sparta, and the surrounding areas? My starting salary would probably be in the $60,000 range. As a single person, would I be able to live in a home here comfortably here on that, or would renting be a better option?
I hate to leave my beloved "Electric City" behind, but, seeing as most of my college-educated peers have already left, I finally realize that there's just not much economic potential in Northeastern Pennsylvania anymore for anyone looking to work anywhere besides McDonald's or Wal-Mart. Any insight into NJ living would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks greatly in advance for your replies!
-A Possible "New" New Jersian
My MIL is a CPA. You will find that there are abundant jobs open in SE NYS for CPA's as well. Salary is sweet too.
I think the only way you would get a GOOD CPA job in NE PA is to work in Middletown NY for someone like BCBS and stay where you are. Even then you are driving 1.5 hours. And they would not offer the salary the NYC metro does.
If you don't find your slice of heaven in NJ, PM me about Southern NY. I would be more than happy to throw out a few suggestions. And I think the area would suit you well.
In my experience, Netcong seems a bit run down. Sparta is nice but expensive and its people are stereotyped as snobs. I lived there as a child and it was definitely true then. I am not as familiar with Hopatcong (except that there is a lake there).
There are a ton of accounting jobs in NJ; check out the job ads in any NJ newspaper and you will see row after row of ads for accounting positions. Probably there are only more ads for truck drivers and nurses.
It's impossible to say if you could afford a home just based on your salary. You also have to take into consideration what other debt you may have (student loans, credit cards, etc.) and how much money you will have saved up for a down payment, which would have a major impact on how big of a mortgage you could afford. Unless you have enough money saved for a sizeable down payment, I think buying a home anywhere in NJ based on a salary of $60k would be a stretch in the least expensive neighborhoods.
Thank you both very much for the helpful insight! I looked online at Sparta, and judging from both Realtor DOT com and Google Earth, the town looked to be very "posh" and "Desperate Housewife-ish", both big TURN-OFFS for me. I'm currently very happy in a middle-class, minivan, non-descript existence here in PA, and I wouldn't want to raise children in the future who were judged based on which private school they attended and how "chic" their fashion tastes were as opposed to what types of wonderful personalities they may have to offer. As such, Sparta can take its "yuppieness" and shove it! LOL!
Netcong just seemed to be an ideal "undiscovered commuter location" for me. You say the town seemed "run-down", but I'd have to guess that redevelopment will be forging onward in the next several years as NJ continues to push for reinvestment into its existing urban centers in hopes of deterring and curtailing the continued loss of open space in the suburbs. I can live with a trashy downtown---My current hometown of Pittston, a former mining town just south of Scranton, PA, has a collapsing downtown, due to Scranton's growing urban sprawl issues, but the crime rate is negligible and the people here are very friendly.
Judging by the distances on my Rand McNally atlas and Mapquest, it seems as if I'd only have a 30-45 minute drive or less to MANY accounting positions in Morris and Essex Counties (Perhaps a bit longer with that dreaded Jersey traffic on I-80). My dream is to someday be able to live in a small city where I can rehabilitate an older home into a showplace to raise my family (I've gained a lot of home improvement knowledge from working at Lowe's) and purchase a downtown building somewhere to house my own CPA firm and jazz cafe (Perhaps I'll tastefully combine them somehow? LOL!) For my dream of community reinvestment, Netcong sounds as if it may be a perfect fit. ;o)
Ideally, I'd be able to earn a decent living here in Scranton, but the locals here think a salary of $25,000 is "big bucks", so I guess that idea is dead. I was hoping to be able to hop a train between Scranton and NJ daily for work, but plans to re-establish a commuter rail line between Scranton and Hoboken seem to have fallen through (Considering that there are THOUSANDS of daily PA-NJ/NYC commuters, I'm surprised the issue actually died). I may still consider driving between Scranton and NJ daily for work at this point---My drive today between Scranton and the Delaware Water Gap only took me about 45 minutes, and from there I'd have to commute another 45 minutes into NJ for employment for a total of a 1.5 hour commute in each direction. (I drive at about 85 miles per hour on the Interstates though! LOL!)
I'm not as "opposed" to the idea of living in NJ as most in my area seem to be. Whenever I mention the Garden State, they say "Don't you mean the Garbage State?" (Even though PA imports most of NJ's garbage anyways, making US the "garbage" state....LOL!)
Can anyone give me some insight into living in Netcong, Hopatcong, Sparta, and the surrounding areas? My starting salary would probably be in the $60,000 range. As a single person, would I be able to live in a home here comfortably here on that, or would renting be a better option?
We have lived in Hopatcong for quite a few years, bought our first "starter" home here and have not left yet, though we are planning to move out of NJ within the year. As christina001 said, it is hard to tell what you can afford given other debts, etc., but I do believe that it is possible to live in this area on 60k. You should look at all the costs closely though - best way I have found to do that is find the "salary comparisons", "cost of living" comparisons on the internet, you can plug in your present zipcode and any area you are look at, and get a good idea of the change in cost of living.
Hopatcong is much larger than Netcong so has much larger range of housing available. Netcong is a very small town, so I'm not sure how much housing is even available at any one time, and I believe most of the houses are older. However, it does have a small main street area, which I have seen them making improvements to lately, they have added a farmer's market at the train station in the summer, etc. They are striving to improve it. There is a small lake where concerts are held in the summer, I'm not sure if they are run by Netcong or Stanhope, the neighboring town. Hopatcong, of course, has a very large lake. I have never looked in Sparta, but I believe you will find in general, it is more expensive, though Hopatcong does run the gamut from very inexpensive small homes to million dollar homes on the lake. I do'nt know if any exist now, but I know when we moved here, there were still some small homes that did not have heat, given they were originally built as summer vacation homes only. As to jobs, yes, plenty of jobs to commute to, though you will most likely be going with the traffic, east-bound and have some traffic issues. An 18 mile drive on Rt 80 from Hopatcong to Parsippany, for example, can take an hour or even more during rush hour, off hours it can be done in 20 minutes or so.
NJ has a bad reputation, and in alot of ways, it is justified, but it is pretty in this area of NW NJ, plenty of trees, lakes, country roads, etc. Chester, 15 min away, is a nice town to walk around in, antique stores, small 4-H fair, and the state fair is held in Sussex County (which Hopatcong and Sparta are part of) every August. If you can afford it, I think you will find it is a nice area. People are generally nice (except when some of them are driving ).
Thanks, Greyhnd, for your helpful information as well. I'll be graduating with my Bachelor's Degree in Accounting from King's College in 2009 with minimal debt, as I've been commuting to campus from my home in the nearby 'burbs to save money on student housing, and my high grades in high school (Yes, I was and currently am a "nerd!" LOL!) earned me some very good scholarships. As far as other expenses are concerned, I currently drive a Ford Contour with only 70,000 miles on it; It's given me NO mechanical problems so far, so I plan to drive it until it finally has to be "retired." As such, this $60,000 expected starting salary in NE NJ will mostly be put towards a mortgage, utility expenditures, property taxes, insurance, home furnishings, etc. I know vehicle insurance in PA is VERY reasonable (I pay approximately $100 per month for my sedan), but I know NJ is probably MUCH more expensive in that category. I'll also hopefully have $5,000-$10,000 saved by 2010 or so to put down on a home.
I'm looking mostly for a smaller, older home in a safe neighborhood convenient to I-80. As such, I guess either Netcong or Hopatcong would fit the bill. I enjoy renovating, so I'd be willing to settle for a dirt cheap home, even if it meant that I had to spend every moment of my free time puttering around with some sort of "project." I'm not at all the "suburban" type---vinyl-sided homes on cookie-cutter lots disgust me, as that's all I see anymore in many parts of my area. My real estate turn-ons include sidewalks, tree-lined streets (or at least a decent number of shade trees in-town), and the ability to walk to a "downtown" area for groceries, restaurants, churches, etc. I also enjoy running at night, so I'd prefer a community where I wouldn't have to have one hand carrying my bottled water and the other hovering near a gun holster for self-defense! In my current neighborhood, most people leave their front doors wide open all night for summer ventilation, as crime is so rare.
School districts don't concern me right now, as I probably won't have children until my late-20s. Hopefully by that time I'll have banked enough money from working in NJ to be able to purchase a building back in Scranton for my own CPA practice. I DO have concerns over how I'll be "treated" as a Pennsylvanian in Sussex County though. I know many people in Monroe County, PA resent people from NJ for ruining their environment---Is that same resentment occurring in the form of Sussex County residents vs. PA transplants as well, or do they embrace new residents? I'm a very friendly, down-to-earth, easy-going person, so I shouldn't have a hard time "fitting in", but I don't want to live in a community where I'm still going to be thought of as an "outsider" many years down the line.
I'm planning on taking a drive into Sussex County sometime during this week when I'm off from work to scout around different neighborhoods, and perhaps I'll ask around at the local diners and mom-and-pop stores about the quality-of-life here as well. Ideally, I wanted to stay in Scranton, but sometimes your professional pursuits require you to relocate. Thanks again for your helpful information!!!
I also just noticed that the median household income is $55,000 in Netcong, so my salary of $60,000 should allow me to live comfortably. I'm not the type to "indulge" myself anyways---Just give me a box of Kraft macaroni & cheese and some Ramen noodles, and I'm set for life! ;o)
Just FYI, but many people do the commute from Matamoras, PA or Port Jervis NY to the city via train or bus. You have the freedom to run around with a minivan and wear jeans or run out to the gas station with your PJ's on and you won't get a snobbish look.
It is better than your original commute from Scranton to NYC would be but it is still one heck of a commute - you are looking at the better part of 1.5 hours door to door, possibly more. If you can afford Jersey then don't listen to those people. I see it being a stretch on 60K and filing single 0 for taxes to be quite honest, then you still have to add in some form of commuting expenses..it is something that deserves a LOT of hard thinking.
I hate to be so harsh, but a lot of people up in Scranton and the southcentral NY area do a LOT of talking about areas that they have never, ever been to. They really love to bash southern NY and Jersey and NYC. Then you ask them if they have ever been down there and you get the "deer in the headlights" look!
Hey Winnie. Thanks for the information! I agree wholeheartedly with your last paragraph. I think part of the reason why the middle-aged and elderly crowd here in NEPA and the Southern Tier of Upstate NY are so ill-disposed towards NJ and NYC is because they see these two areas sucking their children right away from them after college, and they are hoping to stop this mass exodus of our youth by trying to tell them that these areas are "terrible." Personally, I've been through NJ MANY times on my way to Manhattan, and I noticed many beautiful, scenic areas that I wouldn't mind calling home.
I think the phenomenon seems to be a case of empty-nesters worrying about who will take care of them when they are infirmed in a few decades if all of their children have left the state for greener pastures. As such, they have to invent horrific stories about these places they've never been to in hopes of holding them back closer to home. My father has never lived in NJ, but when IBM shifted its Scranton workforce to India several years ago, the prospect of relocating to NJ for work nearly had him doubled-over in the fetal position on the floor crying for mercy! I just don't understand why NJ has such an AWFUL reputation to it---Not only here, but in just about every other forum I've been in as well, especially the Maine forum! Granted, the traffic is horrific and housing prices seem to be steep (Most homes I was looking at online in the Hopatcong area started at $200,000 while you can still find newer-construction homes in the Scranton area for that price), but I've heard that crime in most parts of the state is low, and most NJ-PA transplants I've encountered in our area have been quite friendly.
I guess some people are just afraid of what they don't know or don't understand (which probably also explains the problem with bigotry in my area as well).
By the way, I was considering Matamoras as well, but it's just a bit too "rural" for my tastes. I like to have more of a "big town" and/or a "small city" feel to where I'm living---NOT one of soccer moms doped up on Prozac and speeding around in Range Rovers while yammering into their cell phones about which gardener they're going to have an affair with next (As I envision Sparta, NJ to be like!) I LOVE the quaintness of Downtown Stroudsburg, but the crime issues there are getting out-of-control, and traffic, as I just found out yesterday, backs up for MILES on some of the surrounding two-lane roadways in an out of town, making the town itself a slummy place to live overall.
I'm strictly looking along the I-80 corridor, which is why Netcong and Hopatcong came into my radar. While Stroudsburg and the Poconos just to the west seem to be overrun with commuters, and while areas in Piscataway and just to the east of town seem to be congested, the area between Allamuchy, Budd Lake, and Lake Hopatcong still seemed to have been "undiscovered." Judging by the high housing prices I found online, I guess I might be incorrect, but a trip to this area tomorrow should help me in my decision. ;o)
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