UK or USA/London or New York? (real estate, health insurance)

[hutch5]

I have just posted a similar thred in the New York City forum but I know that in NJ there are a lot of people working in NYC so that's why this thread is here too.
I wonder if anybody could help us with this dilemma. We are a family with 3 children (ages between 1 and 12). My husband has the possibility to choose between a job in London (35.000 British £) or one in Manhattan (95K). In both case we would live in a town outside the big city and the children will be going to State schools.
We have been living for 10 years in England but we have never lived in the States.
I wonder if anybody has had experience of living in both Countries and can offer his/her opinion.
Which of the two places is best to raise the children? Which nation is still holding on a few values? Which one of the two is the most secular? Which school system is best? Which country offer a better quality of family life? Which one can offer better opportunities to the children?

Thank you very much in advance for your help.

[tiggywink]

Maybe I can help. I am an American, my husband is British, we just moved from London to NJ with our 3 year old son. I was there 8 years (but living abroad for 18+years) and taught in a wonderful private school in London--very expensive, but would have been free for my son.

My husband's salaries in London/here in NJ were very similar to what you're saying your husband's would be. We lived in East London, a very lovely town with good primary schools and questionable middle/high schools. We lived in a 3 BR/1 bath Victorian terrace house.

We moved here primarily because we did not want my son to commute on the underground with me during rush hour to Central London to attend school, or for him to be living so far away from his classmates. And also because the local schools were not good enough.

We didn't know quite what to expect, seeing as though I had been living away from "home" for all of my adult life, and my husband had never lived in the States. For pretty much exactly what we sold our house for in London we bought a much bigger, more beautiful house in a much nicer neighborhood with excellent public schools. My husband has a scenic peaceful short commute to work (in NJ also) and there is a train station where many many people commute to NYC for work within walking distance. My son is enrolled in part-time nursery, swimming lessons, and gymnastics--things we could not have afforded in London. My husband joined the YMCA and loves going there before work--also not in our budget in London. Overall our lifestyle has improved--things are cheaper, nicer, cleaner, friendlier. We absolutely made the right choice.

Funnily enough, I am the one who is most homesick for London. My friends, my little routine, my high street, my job--I miss it all-(I am not working currently, another baby on the way and with no maternity leave, it wasn't worth it). We did have to buy 2 cars (we only had 1 in London) and I am not crazy about driving everywhere BUT...that is why we moved to a very walkable, adorable community with a useful, child-friendly, fun downtown. It is very easy to do the things I used to do in London with my son--all on foot.

As I said I was a teacher in London and if you have a LOT of money, you can have a wonderful lifestyle there--but for our salary bracket, the clear choice is the States. PM me if you want to chat further or have any other questions, I'd be happy to help!

[hutch5]

Thanks a lot Tiggywink,

you are being very helpfull and indeed I might have a few more questions in the future. But being new to this or any other forum for that matter I am not quite sure how to PM. I am sure that if I take some time I will be able to work it out.

[BobKovacs]

Originally Posted by hutch5

Thanks a lot Tiggywink,

you are being very helpfull and indeed I might have a few more questions in the future. But being new to this or any other forum for that matter I am not quite sure how to PM. I am sure that if I take some time I will be able to work it out.

Simply click on Tiggywink's name in blue in the post above, and a box will open up with an option to "send a direct message to Tiggywink". Click that, and type away......

[hutch5]

Thanks Bob

[AnthonyB]

Originally Posted by hutch5

I have just posted a similar thred in the New York City forum but I know that in NJ there are a lot of people working in NYC so that's why this thread is here too.
I wonder if anybody could help us with this dilemma. We are a family with 3 children (ages between 1 and 12). My husband has the possibility to choose between a job in London (35.000 British £) or one in Manhattan (95K). In both case we would live in a town outside the big city and the children will be going to State schools.
We have been living for 10 years in England but we have never lived in the States.
I wonder if anybody has had experience of living in both Countries and can offer his/her opinion.
Which of the two places is best to raise the children? Which nation is still holding on a few values? Which one of the two is the most secular? Which school system is best? Which country offer a better quality of family life? Which one can offer better opportunities to the children?

Thank you very much in advance for your help.

Hi. I'm from Scotland, have lived in New Jersey for the past 10 years and have family in London. Tiggywink already did a great job, but I will help where I can.

Compared to much of the US, the NYC area is pretty expensive, but coming from or comparing to London which IMO is even more expensive, you shouldn't have any problems.
The commute into NY should be cheaper, and the subway costs less than the tube, so that should be handy.
I don't think it is easy to generalize the US in terms of values or secular lifestyle as the US is so big that there are huge regional variations. There are very religious (Christian fundementalist) areas in America but the tri-state area isn't one of them. NY and NJ are fairly secular in make-up but have an enormous variety of communities - both ethnically and religiously, which is kind of nice. Not sure about values either. From my experience the US is more consumer oriented than the UK, but have heard from many people that it is changing rapidly, especially in London. The United States is also far more car oriented and outside of the major cities public transport is spotty at best.

Schools in this area are good generally and as mentioned before, pretty diverse and cosmopolitan. In some respects the UK is more family friendly, especially if you both work. Things such as family leave and maternity leave are far stingier here and day care is less regulated - it is pretty much buyer beware. There are lots of clubs and groups for kids, but all of it is privately owned. Also school starts later, with most kids starting Kindergarten at nearly 6, and it is not always full time. Full time school across the board is at First Grade and that is at 6/7, which is pretty late if you are used to the UK system, and especially London. I assume that the job your husband is being offered includes Health insurance. Even so, be aware that out of pocket health costs are much higher here than in the UK.

As for opportunities. The US has a lot. Higher education isn't subsidized like it is in the UK though so you would have to plan to put money aside for college. If your family has an entrepreneurial bent, the US is probably better as business is less regulated. Of course as a consumer that also means "Buyer Beware".

A lot depends on you personally and what kind of lifestyle you want. On the other hand, the US and especially this area is a fairly easy transition from Britain.

Good Luck.


Edit: Forgot to add that your husband will get far less vacation time here -two weeks is the standard. I am alway jealous at the amount of time my brother in law gets off.

[tiggywink]

Yes! The vacation my husband gets was a shock. He negotiated for 3 weeks, but it's still less than what he had in the UK. We spent most of our holidays here in the States visiting my family, and since his family loves to travel (mine doesn't), we already have several of his family reserving weeks to come here to visit, so we don't need as much holiday.

I agree that the maternity leave is appalling here, practically non-existent, and we will not get free nursery for our 3-year-old. I am getting used to the medical care system here, so far it hasn't cost us too much (even with a pregancy), we get bills for $6 or $21, odd amounts that our insurance hasn't covered, but that is definitely more than "free".

This part of the country and where I live in NJ is particularly costly. BUT...compared to London it is better value. The property taxes are extremely high compared to council taxes and in our town it doesn't even cover rubbish collection which we have to pay for ourselves. But even taking these things into account, it's cheaper and easier here.

[hutch5]

Thank you Anthony and Tiggywink,

your points are very helpful and helping us to paint a picture. Yes, Anthony, thing s are changing rapidly in the UK visavis the consumism. They start selling Christmas decoration at the end of September!!
As far as the holidays go thankfully the NY package offered to my husband includes 22 working days of holiday plus the usual Bank holidays and from the sound of it it is quite unusual for the USA.
You mention the commute being cheaper, is it also more efficient? In London, as you know, on top of paying a ridiculuos amount of money for a season ticket, you often have delays and very packed trains.

[AnthonyB]

Originally Posted by hutch5

Thank you Anthony and Tiggywink,

your points are very helpful and helping us to paint a picture. Yes, Anthony, thing s are changing rapidly in the UK visavis the consumism. They start selling Christmas decoration at the end of September!!
As far as the holidays go thankfully the NY package offered to my husband includes 22 working days of holiday plus the usual Bank holidays and from the sound of it it is quite unusual for the USA.
You mention the commute being cheaper, is it also more efficient? In London, as you know, on top of paying a ridiculuos amount of money for a season ticket, you often have delays and very packed trains.

That IS an unusual number of holidays for the US - good going.

The trail commute is fairly efficient, rush hour trains are busy and there are occasional delays but not end of the world.
One consideration - when people tell you the commute from a certain area, and usually real estate agents, they tend to give a shorter time than reality. Plus many people rarely factor in the time taken to get to the station and find parking (many places have waiting lists for regular parking) as well as the time it takes to get to the office in the city. It would be worth having a trial run of the commute just to get a rough idea.

[hutch5]

Thank you very much for your tips, suggestions and honesty. They are very helpful in helping us making a decision.