Is New Jersey considered a Mid-Atlantic State? (Newark, Jersey City: school, college)
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(in fact, I think Westchester County feels very similar to the western suburbs of Boston).
haha i just read this line and i've thought the EXACT same thing a few times.. I-287 in the downstate NY area close to the Tappan Zee feels SO MUCH like where I-95 and I-90 hit in Mass, like around Newton or further west in like Weston
hell no (respectfully lol).. SJ feels nothing, and i mean NOTHING, like North Jersey.. it's almost like NJ should just become two different states (one for north and central parts of the state.. another for the south jersey).. how does North Jersey have anything in common? Hudson County looks more like a borough of NYC and is way more congested, populated, and minority-majority than Staten Island.. even as you go west into the North Jersey suburbs of NYC.. they remind you much more of Westchester or even Nassau in LI for that matter, than it does to South Jersey..
what parts of North Jersey are you even talking about?? up here its Dunkin Donuts every 0.5 mile, one way streets, projects that look like NY projects, and all chain restaurants.. the only "mom-and-pop" places are Latino owned stores and there are lots of them around here.. something you also don't get in South Jersey..
South Jersey is 100% much more like DE or MD.. DE and northern MD (on I-95) that is, are even part of the same Philadelphia metro area that South Jersey is.. you get the exact same vibes in all that area.. the accent, the rural vibes, the Royal Farms and Wawa popping up everywhere, mom-and-pop stores you speak of.. way more space and farms.. Cracker Barrel signs out the wazoo.. a lot slower paced types of people.. and that trend continues only gets more and more down into MD.. Baltimore area and Philly area have more in common than Philly and NY areas.. South Jersey actually feels like the American South to me.. just like the counterparts south of the mason dixon line in MD..
South Jersey even feels more like any part of Virginia than North Jersey.. and don't even get me started on Cape May.. that's south of the mason-dixon line, if the line were extended, and i feel some type of way about that being the same state as where i am
you can't say the DMV feels like north jersey just because of the congestion / city aspect of it.. i mean why not just compare NY / North Jersey with Atlanta or LA then?? DMV is further south than Baltimore and definitely feels that way.. the architecture looks like a mix of up north and down south.. the accent of locals who have been there for a while is totally Southern.. and they can't handle 2 inches of snow without panicking.. again, very little to no similarities with north jersey.. you can't compare the urban center part of one metro area with the rural parts of another metro area.. you go anywhere south of exit 4 or 5 on the NJ Turnpike, and it feels exactly the same to me as much of I-95 in DE, MD, or even the upper half of VA..
what you list with the diners, independent pizza, etc etc.. idk what you even mean by that.. North Jersey culture and streetscape is much much more influenced by NYC.. i love pizza around here, but refuse to eat south jersey pizza.. i had south jersey pizza once, and it tasted like that extremely cheesy trash they have in Philly.. like i find absolutely zero similarities between South Jersey and North Jersey..
There are a total of 2 Cracker Barrels in South Jersey both near the NJTP, another one in Hamilton (Central NJ) and yet CB signs out the wazoo is your impression of South Jersey?
Don't rely on the NJ Turnpike below exit 4, and the one time you tasted pizza in SNJ as your impression, and Hudson County exclusively as what is Northern NJ, and then conclude Southern NJ is more like Maryland and Virginia, or the American South, than the rest of the state.
Maybe the areas of Northern NJ I was thinking were more Central NJ - Robbinsville, Bridgewater, Freehold, Flemington, Wall Twp., Ocean Twp. etc.
Southern NJ (Mount Laurel, Cherry Hill, Deptford, even Mays Landing/Egg Harbor Twp) has more commonality and feel with these areas than any place in Maryland.
Areas in the DMV are more like Northern NJ than Southern NJ. Higher cost of living areas. High income and educated and diverse near global cities. A reason why Avalon Bay has apartments in NYC/North NJ and DC area but not PHL/South NJ.
There are a total of 2 Cracker Barrels in South Jersey both near the NJTP, another one in Hamilton (Central NJ) and yet CB signs out the wazoo is your impression of South Jersey?
Don't rely on the NJ Turnpike below exit 4, and the one time you tasted pizza in SNJ as your impression, and Hudson County exclusively as what is Northern NJ, and then conclude Southern NJ is more like Maryland and Virginia than the rest of the state.
Maybe the areas of Northern NJ I was thinking were more Central NJ - Robbinsville, Bridgewater, Freehold, Wall Twp., Ocean Twp. etc. SNJ (Mount Laurel, Cherry Hill, Deptford, even Egg Harbor Twp) is more like these areas than any place in Maryland.
none of those towns are north jersey.. not even close lol.. those are VERY MUCH Central Jersey.. Central Jersey does not equal North Jersey.. and yes some of those South Jersey towns are just a few exits down from those Central Jersey towns, and do have some in common with Central Jersey.. South Jersey has some in common with Central Jersey, but even more in common with DE / MD.. i mean all the Royal Farms, the Philly accent.. etc etc..
it also kinda depends where in South Jersey you're talking about.. closer to somewhere like 6-flags, yeah it's more central jersey influenced.. but like Haddonfield or Mount Laurel.. that entire chunk of Jersey just feels like MD and DE to me.. i mean it is technically the Delaware Valley too if u think about it..
i feel like anybody would agree with me at least that from Exit 2 on the NJ TPK, thru the Delaware Bridge, and then 15 min later on I-95 where you hit Cecil County, MD, very little changes.. they all get Philly TV, and Eagles Country mixed with some Ravens fans..
but c'mon man.. how are any of those North Jersey?? even outside Hudson County, there's PLENTY of North Jersey that has absolutely zero in common with South Jersey.. think places like Clifton, Rutherford, Passaic, Caldwell, Nutley, Montclair, Paterson, Newark, Fort Lee.. etc etc.. THAT'S north jersey.. all those places have amazing pizza too, reminiscent of NY and even CT pizza..
i couldnt see your entire post before hitting the "quote" button.. but to your point, none of those towns are north jersey.. not even close lol.. those are VERY MUCH Central Jersey.. Central Jersey does not equal North Jersey.. and yes some of those South Jersey towns are just a few exits down from those Central Jersey towns, and do have some in common with Central Jersey.. South Jersey has some in common with Central Jersey, and some in common with DE / MD.. i mean all the Royal Farms, the Philly accent.. etc etc..
but c'mon man.. how are any of those North Jersey?? even outside Hudson County, there's PLENTY of North Jersey that has absolutely zero in common with South Jersey.. think places like Clifton, Rutherford, Passaic, Caldwell, Nutley, Montclair, Paterson.. etc etc.. THAT'S north jersey.. all those places have amazing pizza too, reminiscent of NY and even CT pizza
Royal Farms is relatively new in Southern NJ. I think you mean Wawa? Anyways, the Wawa explosion is more like an invasive species and some towns are now fighting it.
Anyways, it's still in debate if Central NJ is in Northern NJ or if it's a separate area. We might have to wait until that one gets settled, before determining if Southern NJ is more like Maryland over Northern NJ.
Maryland still has a long way to go before being invaded by Wawa. It appears Wawa has pursued Florida over DC area for growth. In general, MD counties have county level master plans. Maryland just has a different vibe with decisions made at the county level also (like Montgomery County taxing plastic bags), its highways, the towns off of them, and mostly newer construction of homes. There are a few ShopRites in Maryland now, but Giant and Safeway are more dominant, where in NJ, anywhere in the state, ShopRite is still the dominant grocery store. Employment wise, it's common for most to have government/clearance related jobs in Maryland, unlike NJ. Once you go past Maryland or even west into PA past Philly, you leave generally a Blue area to more Redder areas- you'll see signs for gun shows and conservative leaning billboard signs that you just won't see in South NJ.
Royal Farms is relatively new in Southern NJ. I think you mean Wawa? Anyways, the Wawa explosion is more like an invasive species and some towns are now fighting it.
Anyways, it's still in debate if Central NJ is in Northern NJ or if it's a separate area. We might have to wait until that one gets settled, before determining if Southern NJ is more like Maryland over Northern NJ.
Maryland still has a long way to go before being invaded by Wawa. It appears Wawa has pursued Florida over DC area for growth. In general, MD counties have county level master plans. Maryland just has a different vibe with decisions made at the county level also (like Montgomery County taxing plastic bags), its highways, the towns off of them, and mostly newer construction of homes. There are a few ShopRites in Maryland now, but Giant and Safeway are more dominant, where in NJ, anywhere in the state, ShopRite is still the dominant grocery store. Employment wise, it's common for most to have government/clearance related jobs in Maryland, unlike NJ. Once you go past Maryland or even west into PA past Philly, you leave generally a Blue area to more Redder areas- you'll see signs for gun shows and conservative leaning billboard signs that you just won't see in South NJ.
lol south jersey is very conservative.. and i dont get what u mean with MD not having Wawa.. i see them all over the place down there.. like literally every other exit on 95.. same with Delaware.. so idk what you mean there
lol south jersey is very conservative.. and i dont get what u mean with MD not having Wawa.. i see them all over the place down there.. like literally every other exit on 95.. same with Delaware.. so idk what you mean there
Try getting off I-95 to see some actual towns where people live.
South Jersey is not very conservative. At most, light red. Yes, Wawa isn't that prevalent in Maryland. Just doing a quick search using their store locator:
Wawa's store locator results in 50 stores within 20 miles of Cherry Hill, NJ.
Wawa's store locator results in 41 stores within 20 miles of Edison, NJ.
Wawa's store locator results in 20 stores within 20 miles of Newark, NJ.
Wawa's store locator results in 18 stores within 20 miles of Baltimore, MD.
Wawa's store locator results in 13 stores within 20 miles of Columbia, MD.
On the conservatie point: Monmouth and Ocean counties are conservative as well.
The conservatism of SNJ isn't like that of red southern US. I don't see mega churches in SNJ, conservative ads on billboards on the Walt Whitman Bridge. At most on a rural drive through Cumberland County, I saw Trump signs but it's really inside in NJ. Most of the SWNJ counties voted for Biden in this last election.
Also, you have given any points on how Southern NJ is like Maryland. Wawa/Royal Farms isn't it. But believe what you want. When I talk with cousins/friends's kids in Northern NJ, they say they'd go to Six Flags in Jackson, just like kids in South NJ. They head to the Jersey Shore. The Maryland people have their own summer destinations. They pump their own gas, pay tax on clothes, they attend UMBC/UM College Park over Rutgers, try their best to get security clearance as it is useful for their career as lot of the jobs down there require it. Different strokes for different folks.
Yes. I consider mid-Atlantic to be NJ, PA, DE, MD, NY, and arguably WV and coastal/northern VA.
New England is CT, MA, RI, VT, NH, ME. I think parts of upstate NY particularly along the Hudson River and New England borders could arguably qualify as New England, but much of upstate NY has commonalities with Pennsylvania NJ and even Ohio (and Canada if you go far north enough). I'd say overall the NY balance tips towards PA and NJ. NJ is definitely not New England.
I have heard it argued that 'the South' extends into much of NJ possibly up to around Trenton (or even up to Northeast corner of state), and at that point 'the real North' begins. It's a complicated question but I don't disagree entirely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxNcode
lol south jersey is very conservative
Not where most of the people are. Camden County (unfortunately) is 60-40 65-35 Democrat. Gloucester County is also significantly blue. Burlington County is marginally red. The other counties are moderately red but I'm almost certain the overall population of the region leans blue by at least a couple points.
To answer the long-gone OP's question, I would say far north and northeast Bergen County (and maybe parts of Hunterdon, Morris, Passaic, Essex) has the most similar look to New England (though not sure a similar feel), and every other county leans Mid-Atlantic/non-New England.
Not where most of the people are. Camden County (unfortunately) is 60-40 65-35 Democrat. Gloucester County is also significantly blue. Burlington County is marginally red. The other counties are moderately red but I'm almost certain the overall population of the region leans blue by at least a couple points.
Not quite. Camden County is heavily blue. Burlington County is light blue. Gloucester, Cumberland, and Atlantic Counties are purple. Salem and Cape May Counties are solidly red. The red counties happen to be the two least populated, while the blue counties are the two most populated. And the difference between those populations is several times over.
By and large the developed Philly suburbs are blue, while rural areas are red (no surprise here). That is true even within blue counties such as Burlington. There is a big difference between Mount Laurel and, say, Mansfield/Columbus.
The other counties are pockets of blue small cities surrounded by red rural and exurban areas. Atlantic County, for example, is blue in Atlantic City, Pleasantville, maybe Ventnor and Margate, but red elsewhere away from the shoreline in places like Hammonton and Egg Harbor Township. In the end it shakes out to be pretty purple.
Camden and Burlington Counties voted for Hillary and Biden, and Murphy twice. Gloucester voted for Trump in 2016, Biden in 2020, Murphy in 2017, and Jack in 2021. Atlantic and Cumberland voted for Hillary and Biden, Murphy in 2017, Jack in 2021. Salem and Cape May voted for Trump twice, Guadagno in 2017, and Jack in 2021.
Usually in totality the seven counties always provide a comfortable win for the Democrat, but I think in 2021, Jack actually slightly beat Murphy overall.
Of course, when we talk about blue areas in South Jersey, it’s mostly suburban, so they are very much Joe Biden Democrats as opposed to, say, Bernie Sanders Democrats. But that’s true in North/Central Jersey as well. It’s just that South Jersey doesn’t have large urban areas where they are more far left. Camden is it, and maybe neighboring suburb Collingswood. Whereas North Jersey has Jersey City, Newark, Paterson, Elizabeth, Hoboken, etc. Even suburbs there are not “progressive” except for a select few like Montclair, South Orange, and Maplewood.
The Census defines NJ in the Northeast and Middle Atlantic. NY, NJ and PA are in the latter. Interestingly, Delaware isn't associated with these three states, but is with Maryland in the South Atlantic category, even though majority of DE population is in New Castle County which is in the Philly metropolitan area. Delaware was once part of PA as well.
I'm not really sure what meaning or effect the Census broad regional terms ultimately have though.
The Census defines NJ in the Northeast and Middle Atlantic. NY, NJ and PA are in the latter. Interestingly, Delaware isn't associated with these three states, but is with Maryland in the South Atlantic category, even though majority of DE population is in New Castle County which is in the Philly metropolitan area. Delaware was once part of PA as well.
I'm not really sure what meaning or effect the Census broad regional terms ultimately have though.
haha yeah this is something i've thought of many times.. DE and northeast MD are part of the Philly area, but south of the mason-dixon line..
lemme ask this question.. do you feel that Philly and Baltimore have a lot in common?
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