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If Chatham is so prestigious, why do you spend so much time on city-data trashing our happy little towns? Shouldn't Chatham be able to stand on its own merits? Isn't one of the hallmarks of prestige not needing to toot your own horn all the time? Could you possible sound more nouveau riche?
Nobody is trashing West Orange or its people. I am trashing its excessive, confiscatory, outrageous and unfair taxation relative to other towns. Chatham is just one example. I could have also used 15 other towns. And indeed West Orange is one example, I could have also chosen Montclair or Irvington. It seems to be worse in Essex County. Possibly because Essex County in general contains an outsized quantity of low income types who demand services paid for by others people's money.
In any case, buyers should study a town CAREFULLY and make sure the money they are paying in taxes makes sense and is not flowing where it shouldn't. If you have an ordinary town like West Orange, and the taxes are breathtakingly excessive, you want to try and find out why. There is a reason, so you have to do the research.
Nobody is trashing West Orange or its people. I am trashing its excessive, confiscatory, outrageous and unfair taxation relative to other towns. Chatham is just one example. I could have also used 15 other towns. And indeed West Orange is one example, I could have also chosen Montclair or Irvington. It seems to be worse in Essex County. Possibly because Essex County in general contains an outsized quantity of low income types who demand services paid for by others people's money.
What services are these "low income types" demanding? In West Orange we have a fully paid fire dept including EMS services. That is a huge tax expense with salary and pension. I'm sure everyone in town demands this service regardless of their income. A town like Chatham has a volunteer fire department, so that's a huge tax savings for them. In West Orange, twice per week garbage and recycling pickup is included in our taxes. In many towns you have to pay a separate bill for trash pickup, or there is no service at all and you have to schlep your junk to the dump on your own. These are the services you need to look at. They are just 2 examples I could think of off the top of my head.
M'kay. What some people call "prestige", other people call "Chattitude". Some people don't want to live in Stepfordville, where people unironically say things like "prestige". Some people don't want to send their kids to "pressure cooker" schools. How many times have we seen this on this forum, in those exact words? It's been stated ad nauseum in this thread: Different strokes, for different folks.
I grew up in a wealthy brand name town myself, and all of my rich friends went to tony private schools for undergrad and grad. Yeah, some of them have returned to settle in places of "prestige" like Chatham, Madison, Short Hills, and Livingston. And I am in a picturesque little MoCo suburb myself. But plenty of people I know wrinkle their noses at this lifestyle entirely, and have deliberately opted to settle in towns that are more "down to earth" (their words), as well as diverse. I have one friend who has refused to return to the Suburbs of Prestige at all, and instead has opted to settle in Brooklyn where he sends his kids to public school. We're talking about someone who grew up in the lap of luxury in the heart of prestige.
P.S. I'm in Chatham a lot. Friends & family. Lots of great properties with gorgeous curb appeal. Also lots of unremarkable "1950s sh*tboxes", as someone on this forum once colorfully put it. (I say that as someone who lived fondly in a 1950s sh*box.) The point is, don't try to make blanket assertions that a town is all properties of prestige (Chatham), or full of "crappy bi-levels" that "have all the panache of a double-wide" (West Orange).
Below is a summary of you trashing West Orange, its current residents, and its prospective residents, in this thread alone. You've said over and over again how WO residents are idiots, calling their intelligence into question, and calling them irrational cattle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella
You'd have to be an idiot to move into West Orange where the local government is just going to throw you over a table and have you to the tune of $16,103 this year, and probably $20,000 in 4 or 5 years...So that you can live like the Gates in a vinyl sided Bi-Level on a postage stamp lot with no basement and only slightly more panache that a double-wide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella
You know, it's amazing, some people apologizing for this obscenity. It's akin to cattle in the slaughterhouse instructing their killers where to place the blade that slashes their neck. But that's what we see. The sanction of the victims.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella
Bottom line, lower property taxes is more money in your budget, and less money in the budget of irresponsible selfish collectivistic bureaucrats. I'd rather keep the money I earn and own and decide the best way to spend it. And so should any rational person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella
Not odd at all. Irrational behavior is VERY POPULAR nowadays. Or hadn't you noticed?
Let's skip all the personal nonsense. I am probably in the 1% of CityData participants who proudly and irreverently provide all commentary using my real name, unlike those who choose to hide. If you can't say something under your real identity, you really have no business saying anything at all. But, that's how the Internet has developed to date. I use my real name.
My mouth laughs, and my eyes roll.
The rest of us aren't choosing to "hide". It's just that the rest of us are not real estate agents on a relocation/real estate forum, trolling for name recognition and leads. You post under your real name and have your custom user title set to "Real Estate Agent" (and not "Member" or "Senior Member" like everyone else), not because you are some bastion of honesty (really, it's quite the opposite as you are being very disingenuous throughout this entire thread...cherry picking info and comparing apples to (west) oranges...a real fruit salad of posting points), but because you get free advertising/publicity with each post.
BUYER BEWARE, indeed. Buyers should be aware that a real estate agent's #1 priority is his commission. That's all fine & good. That's just business, and everyone's gotta earn a living. But don't try to portray yourself as some protector or advocate of the consumer. People aren't idiots. Property tax rates and property taxes on specific properties are easily searchable public information. We don't need real estate agents to illuminate us on things that we already know.
If some big, hotshot moneybags in West Orange asked you to be the listing agent for their $2 million Llewellyn Park estate, you'd be shucking & jiving to a much different tune, I'm sure.
Nobody is trashing West Orange or its people. I am trashing its excessive, confiscatory, outrageous and unfair taxation relative to other towns. Chatham is just one example. I could have also used 15 other towns. And indeed West Orange is one example, I could have also chosen Montclair or Irvington. It seems to be worse in Essex County. Possibly because Essex County in general contains an outsized quantity of low income types who demand services paid for by others people's money.
In any case, buyers should study a town CAREFULLY and make sure the money they are paying in taxes makes sense and is not flowing where it shouldn't. If you have an ordinary town like West Orange, and the taxes are breathtakingly excessive, you want to try and find out why. There is a reason, so you have to do the research.
I addressed this on the previous page. Maybe you missed it. Those of us who live in these towns recognize that there are structural financial issues that cause our taxes to be higher than elsewhere in the state, yet we still choose to live here.
Quote:
Nah, there's not a lot of waste in Essex County towns compared to other towns. The high property taxes are caused by several factors, including (1) the lack of big ratables (malls, office parks, etc.) in the older, inner-ring suburbs, causing greater reliance on property taxes to fund the schools, and (2) discrepancies in the distribution of state aid to schools that disproportionately affect these towns.
Below is a summary of you trashing West Orange, its current residents, and its prospective residents, in this thread alone. You've said over and over again how WO residents are idiots, calling their intelligence into question, and calling them irrational cattle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella You'd have to be an idiot to move into West Orange where the local government is just going to throw you over a table and have you to the tune of $16,103 this year, and probably $20,000 in 4 or 5 years...So that you can live like the Gates in a vinyl sided Bi-Level on a postage stamp lot with no basement and only slightly more panache that a double-wide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella You know, it's amazing, some people apologizing for this obscenity. It's akin to cattle in the slaughterhouse instructing their killers where to place the blade that slashes their neck. But that's what we see. The sanction of the victims.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella Bottom line, lower property taxes is more money in your budget, and less money in the budget of irresponsible selfish collectivistic bureaucrats. I'd rather keep the money I earn and own and decide the best way to spend it. And so should any rational person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella Not odd at all. Irrational behavior is VERY POPULAR nowadays. Or hadn't you noticed?
I addressed this on the previous page. Maybe you missed it. Those of us who live in these towns recognize that there are structural financial issues that cause our taxes to be higher than elsewhere in the state, yet we still choose to live here.
Admitting that there is a problem is the first step. And yes, there is one heck of a problem when someone living in a Bi-Level has to send a $21,500 check to the LOCAL government each year.
But like all government, it is NEVER going to get smaller. It's like a virus. It will die only after killing its hosts.
M'kay. What some people call "prestige", other people call "Chattitude". Some people don't want to live in Stepfordville, where people unironically say things like "prestige". Some people don't want to send their kids to "pressure cooker" schools. How many times have we seen this on this forum, in those exact words? It's been stated ad nauseum in this thread: Different strokes, for different folks.
I grew up in a wealthy brand name town myself, and all of my rich friends went to tony private schools for undergrad and grad. Yeah, some of them have returned to settle in places of "prestige" like Chatham, Madison, Short Hills, and Livingston. And I am in a picturesque little MoCo suburb myself. But plenty of people I know wrinkle their noses at this lifestyle entirely, and have deliberately opted to settle in towns that are more "down to earth" (their words), as well as diverse. I have one friend who has refused to return to the Suburbs of Prestige at all, and instead has opted to settle in Brooklyn where he sends his kids to public school. We're talking about someone who grew up in the lap of luxury in the heart of prestige.
P.S. I'm in Chatham a lot. Friends & family. Lots of great properties with gorgeous curb appeal. Also lots of unremarkable "1950s sh*tboxes", as someone on this forum once colorfully put it. (I say that as someone who lived fondly in a 1950s sh*box.) The point is, don't try to make blanket assertions that a town is all properties of prestige (Chatham), or full of "crappy bi-levels" that "have all the panache of a double-wide" (West Orange).
Chattitude and Stepfordville. The envy oozing and dripping like motor oil from a broken engine.
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